#84 - Learning by Doing: Insights and Stories from Textile Entrepreneurs at Berlin's Wedding Wool Weekend

Can you imagine turning your passion for textiles into a thriving business? On this episode of the Pattern Shift podcast, we transport you to the lively Wedding Wool Weekend festival in Berlin’s Wedding neighborhood. Joined by my friend Angela, we had the pleasure of talking with several brilliant textile business owners. Thanks to Ruta from Wollen Berlin, who organized this remarkable event, we're able to share their insightful journeys with you. Listen to our conversation with Saskia Maas of Ovis Etc, who delves into the importance of non-superwash yarn and reveals how support networks can be game-changers for creative entrepreneurs.

We also bring you the compelling stories of two business owners who transitioned from being self-taught in areas like marketing and photography to seeking professional help to streamline their operations. Hear from a talented knitwear designer who shares her strategies for balancing the creative and business aspects of her work and the empowering role of collaboration. Discover practical advice on building a long-term, sustainable business and the hurdles you must overcome to maintain your creative edge while growing your brand.

Finally, get inspired by Melinda, Silke from Funk Fiber, and Nora from Ki

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:05

Hello, lovely listener, I'm so glad that you're here. Whether it is your first time listening or you are a returning set of ears, I'm happy to have you here. As I report from last weekend's festival, I visited in Berlin the Wedding Wool Weekend, which has nothing to do with any matrimony. It is actually held in the neighborhood of Wedding, which I've learned now. The word for neighborhood is Kiez, so it's Kiez Wedding, I think, if I understood it well, and I visited with my friend, angela, which was amazing. We had such a lovely time.

Speaker 1: 0:46

I just want to say a quick thank you to Angela for making this weekend so lovely and being patient with me doing all the interviews being very helpful. Thank you, angela. It was super dope. We had some amazing food, we talked to a lot of old friends and we made some new friends, which is always great to do on festivals. It was a wonderful weekend and I want to thank Ruta, the owner of Wollen Berlin, who organized this with her team, for this amazing experience. And thank you for letting me interview the business owners, because I think I got something really good out of that, something I can share with other people that are interested in what it's like to run a business in this industry, or people that kind of have a secret dream, or even, or especially actually, those that already run a business and secretly want to know how everybody else is doing their thing.

Speaker 1: 1:51

So my aim was to collect kind of an overview of how business owners have managed to build their business. How long have they been working at their business? Do they do this as their full-time job? Are they able to rely on the income that they get from it? Is there something that they struggle with and, if so, how do they find solutions to their problems? This resulted in an hour long of very interesting conversations. I'm using a special microphone on my phone, but it's definitely not the same setup as I have here at home, so there's a lot of background noise and you will hear the person that I'm interviewing a lot more clearly than you will hear me asking questions because I am pointing the microphone in their direction. Now I've tried to edit out my voice where it wasn't necessary, but in some points I left it in because the conversation is unnatural if I keep it out, so sometimes you'll hear my voice and it's going to be softer than the person that I'm interviewing, but that's how it's supposed to be, just so you know. If it's not your thing the background, noise and everything you can fast forward to the end, where I bring everything together in a conclusion.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Hello, my name is Saskia. Welcome to Pattern Shift. Are you running a textile craft business or dreaming of starting one? Whether you are trying to make a living or something extra on the side, turning from crafter to business owner can be a steep learning curve. It doesn't have to be With 16 years of experience in running small businesses in textile crafts and a drive to build a solid alternative to fast fashion. My mission is to provide you with no BS, actionable exercises and strategies in a language that makes sense to you that you can implement right away so you can organize, build and grow your business. So don't burn out before you get started. Build a solid base with the help of Pattern Shift Podcast and the Yavol community and its programs. Again, thank you so much for being here. I hope you like it.

Speaker 1: 4:19

If you have any questions about anything, if you want to react to this, have any questions about anything?

Speaker 1: 4:28

If you want to react to this, please send me an email at info at ya-volcom or leave me a voice note on the website patternshiftfm at this particular episode.

Speaker 1: 4:37

And another big, solid point I have to make here and ask you is to sign up for emails from me, yavol Patton Shift, and all the things we do together in the Yavol community, because this is why I actually make the podcast. I spend a lot of time and have a lot of fun doing this so that I can share what I know for free, but I also have lots of fun things that we can do, lots of helpful things that we can do together, and having you on my email list is your thank you for the work that I do with this podcast. So go to the show notes, sign up. Go to my website, sign up there wherever you want. I love to have you on my list. Thank you, have fun. I hope it feels like you've been a little bit at the festival with us, as you enjoy the sounds of knitting people and textile entrepreneurs. So, without further ado, let's go on and start with Saskia Maas from Ovis, etc.

Speaker 3: 5:47

Hello, hello.

Speaker 4: 5:49

Hi Saskia, hi, Big game Ganz gut, ganz gut yeah. Do you have a second? For four quick questions yeah, okay, maybe we should step aside this yes and feel free to help any customers while I'm interrogating you.

Speaker 1: 6:04

So first question what is your brand known for?

Speaker 4: 6:08

For non-superwash yarn made out of natural materials, and can you name your brand and your own name please? My brand name is Ovis Etc and my name is Saskia.

Speaker 1: 6:23

So I'm here, I'm interested in small businesses and how they work, and so my question is what are things that you sometimes struggle with in running a small business?

Speaker 3: 6:34

Planning, planning.

Speaker 1: 6:37

And how do you deal with getting better at planning?

Speaker 4: 6:40

Well, I'm trying my very, very best to get better at it. Well, I joined the business circle and that helps tremendously.

Speaker 1: 6:49

Yes, cool, okay, that's good now, uh, my last question is is this your full-time job?

Speaker 4: 6:57

uh, it's, it is since um almost a year. Now already almost a year, now Already almost a year. Do you rely on the income? Oh, yes, absolutely, yes, yes, I'm the breadwinner of the household.

Speaker 5: 7:10

Well, your stall is beautiful, Thank you.

Speaker 1: 7:13

Next is my small little interview with Anna from Wundersee, who works together with her mother-in-law as a super team. They design ingeniously folded needle cases from a beautiful sturdy paper and other knitting accessories. What are some of the challenges you find in your business.

Speaker 8: 7:36

Yes, because we are both knitters, creative, you know, and we have a lot of ideas and for us us it's challenging to focus just on one product, maybe not spread all over the place. Focus on one product, test it, do the marketing and then move on to the next one. So stick really to your main idea, to your main position. We talk regularly like we have a document with our vision where we want to go, and we regularly sit down, open this document and really see, okay, are we still on moving in the right direction? And what other ideas we have and how they adjust. You know how they can adjust our now, our offer.

Speaker 8: 8:21

You know so you sound like you have a marketing background like I do. I'm um, I'm from coming from the marketing and my partner, my mother-in-law, she's a designer, textile designer. So we perfectly, we are a perfect match. What a great deal.

Speaker 1: 8:37

Yes, thank you so much um so this is your full-time or part-time? This is my full-time job. Full-time, this is my full-time job. Full-time job, yes, and do you rely?

Speaker 8: 8:47

on the income. Not yet, not completely, but it's really. It's developing. We are just, we are not even one year old and still I think we are making a very good progress. Yes, and I'm sure this year I will be able to rely already on Thank you, Hannah, and thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 9:04

You're welcome. Nice meeting you as well. Next up is Sori, who's teaching a short row workshop at the festival but has a pretty long CV in the industry already. Sori was a breath of fresh air to talk to and lovely to meet her on multiple occasions during the festival.

Speaker 2: 9:21

My name is Sori Well, my name is Soraya, but everybody calls me Sori and my brand name is Yedra Knits, which is Ivy Knits. So to say, I'm making a little twist this year because my brand in Spain is known because I made a first knitting magazine in Spanish. The first one, it was Bellota, what is called Acorn, and then we have to change the name because a long story, and it's called Yedranit. So I'm known because of being the publisher of this indie magazine. But one year ago I decided just to well, not one year ago, yes, it's four years now. Oh my gosh. Yeah, after the pandemic, I began to teach and I discovered that I really love to teach. So now I'm focusing on giving workshops and so on.

Speaker 1: 10:18

And what workshop are you teaching at the festival?

Speaker 2: 10:22

Showroles, because it's the thing that I love the most, because you can do three-dimensional things with that. I really love it because it's a fun fact that when I was like 16 or something, I thought I invented show rows Because I said, okay, if you don't meet at the end of the row, something's happening here. So I feel myself so clever. And then I noticed that someone else or many others have done this before and I really connected to the tailoring, because it's the way you make darts. So to say so it's one thing that I love. And now I have a podcast that is called Sherbro's in Spanish. So vueltas cortas, I think. Well, I used to say, when we do the magazine, like every issue has its own drama, because when you overcome one of the dramas, it comes the other one. So I think self-promoting is one of the things, because when you are introvert and things like that, it's like something that is hard sometimes. So maybe it's the thing that is most difficult to me.

Speaker 1: 11:37

Yeah, I think it's that like self-promoting and so on and did you find ways to overcome it, to learn more about it, to work at it?

Speaker 2: 13:15

I think, yes, like the community, because when you meet people it's like you get more self-confidence, more and more and more. The labor that the podcasters do, I think, is so special because all this kind of in the very first time I realized all the things that I have to show to the community. It was in an interview. I had to listen to myself and I find, okay, that's nice.

Speaker 2: 13:49

So I overcome it a little bit yeah yeah, well, I have to admit that I quit the magazine because of the rise of the paper. It make it impossible. So the magazine, it was not possible anymore. But now I full-time live on the workshops and the patterns. It's my only source of income. It's a hard work and I cannot be able to do it since the fourth year, to be honest. So, yeah, it's like, of course, I live with my partner. So for the first years, if I was on my own it would not be possible. But something that I think is also important to know is that even if you well I think this is more important for women overcome this, how to say this burden of we are super on ourselves and so on.

Speaker 1: 15:00

So if we have we should have a date and do this conversation for a full podcast episode.

Speaker 2: 15:04

Okay, okay, yeah, let's do it. Yeah, of course, yeah, let's do that, okay, okay.

Speaker 1: 15:09

Thank you so much. Thank you, I had a lot of fun. Yeah, you too.

Speaker 2: 15:12

And I'll see you around. Bye-bye.

Speaker 1: 15:16

Sari and I started to go into a deeper topic of being able to rely on your partner as a second income while you are building your business or even as you are running your business throughout the years. This is such an important and interesting topic to me that I wanted to talk to her about it a little bit more, but as I only had time for short interviews during the festival, we decided to meet up another time and do a full interview on that topic and perhaps some other topics, so I'm looking forward to inviting sorry to the podcast another time as well. We will be swiftly moving on with stefania and julia from lani I am stefania and I'm julia, and we are Perfect, and what does?

Speaker 6: 16:10

that mean in English, it means women who sell yarn Basically, and you are from.

Speaker 3: 16:18

We're from Italy and what is your brand known for?

Speaker 9: 16:23

We just focus on making our own yarn, our own bases with local fibers we started gathering directly from breeders in Italy, especially the wool and the alpaca or the mohair. We focus on luxury fibers like the cashmere that Giulia grows in her own farm. We get the undying or just leave some bases undied with the natural colors of the fibers.

Speaker 6: 16:50

And how did you find it? Well, because when I wanted to start the Kashmir Goat Farm, I wanted to learn more about fibre and hand spinning, and I was still living in Genoa and I attended to a course that Stefania was.

Speaker 9: 17:08

I was teaching a hand spinning workshop and that's how we met, and then we just kept in touch. Yeah, amazing.

Speaker 1: 17:15

Just clicked what would you say? And also feel free to help any customers.

Speaker 9: 17:21

I will not. No, no, no.

Speaker 3: 17:23

What would you say is?

Speaker 1: 17:25

the biggest challenge as a business owner in this industry for you personally.

Speaker 6: 17:29

Oh yeah, sure, Gathering the fibers and having to work with meals that require a large amount of fibers where, whereas we are a really small business and so we and also the yield of the farmers we work with, it's quite small. So we I think that's one of the more challenging because of course there's more well, the costs are higher for small batches so it requires some planning as well yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, so yeah, basically I think that's, and when?

Speaker 9: 18:08

yeah, sorry, no, no, no, no, I was just thinking.

Speaker 7: 18:12

Maybe this as well, yeah, but we can go on. Let's move on. Yeah, better, so whenever you run into a challenge.

Speaker 1: 18:24

How do you learn and how do you proceed?

Speaker 6: 18:28

Well, I think that for a long time I mean at the beginning and maybe until last year we were mostly self-taught in everything that we did, you know, from the marketing, to the photography, to the learning To the milling, the production process and the business packaging.

Speaker 9: 18:47

Yeah, yeah, everything yeah.

Speaker 6: 18:50

Now maybe about the marketing, and we started to ask for help to some professionals.

Speaker 9: 19:00

About the business structure and the management.

Speaker 6: 19:07

At some point you need to ask to someone.

Speaker 9: 19:10

If you want to step up it, it's like that's true, yeah then the other question is this both of your full time? Job. Well, yeah, mostly yeah and does this have to bring the breads yeah, well what well for me yes, yeah

Speaker 1: 19:30

it does so yeah I think it's important for people that want to start a business that they have a real sense of how possible is it?

Speaker 6: 19:40

Well, I'd say it took us a few years to reach this point where we can say that yeah, because there are lots of taxis, at least in Italy, so it's always really challenging.

Speaker 9: 19:54

And you say it in a quite long term, because initially it seems everything is proceeding, but then you have to step up year after year, and it has to be sustainable it's like a diesel right you just push snow and then you get moving and you see the impacts going on and higher as you proceed with the production, with the higher amounts of milk and so on. So it's continuing.

Speaker 1: 20:22

But it's still your favorite job in the world?

Speaker 6: 20:25

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Thank you so much. Thank you, it was really interesting. Let me just check the mic, check, check, check the mic, mic, mic check check, check it looks like it's working okay um, so I have with me here.

Speaker 5: 20:47

I'm a knitwear designer not for so long, yet for a few years and I'm at a festival to give workshops and to do a trunk show, which is here. But you can see, trunk show is that you take your designs with you and put them on display so people can see it, try it on if they want ask questions, I'm here as designer to to tell about it.

Speaker 1: 21:09

That's basically yeah, yeah so you're promoting your work in a way that a designer can yes, okay, cool. And so where can people?

Speaker 7: 21:18

find your designs.

Speaker 5: 21:21

Now on Reverie and in books. I have three self-published patents on Reverie and I'm in Lerner books and the Neon and Neutral's book by La Bien-Aimée and several Leron and Lutro's book by La Bien-Aimée and several Lerne publications actually, and what would you?

Speaker 1: 21:36

say, defines your style, your brand? I know it's a hard question. It's a hard question.

Speaker 5: 21:41

Give it a shot. Yes, I had the same question from Lerne so I thought about it. I think my work is quite graphic and it has like a classical base, but with a modern twist.

Speaker 1: 21:53

Oh, that's nicely put. I would totally 100% agree. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I love your bearful sweater. Let's say it in our own language, so that people know how to pronounce it Bearful Bearful, which means in English Fertile brain actually, or also like a whirlwind, you could say yeah cool.

Speaker 3: 22:15

So that's one of the most uh known designs most popular?

Speaker 5: 22:21

yes, because it was in the neon and neutral spook and even on the cover, so I was lucky it's so beautiful, it's really beautiful.

Speaker 1: 22:29

You're very talented and promising designer.

Speaker 3: 22:34

I have big hopes for you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 5: 22:41

Do you see yourself as a business?

Speaker 3: 22:42

owner at this point.

Speaker 5: 22:42

Yeah, not really. I feel more like a designer. That's also why I mainly collaborate with publications. I really like collaborating, but also they do the PR and make the photos and we do it together. I kind of like that and focus more on design and have that in collaboration because it's not my expertise.

Speaker 1: 23:05

Yeah, that's actually my next question what do you think is really hard in terms of running a business? What are your challenges, your biggest challenges?

Speaker 5: 23:15

Yeah, being present online all the time and doing PR. I'm not a person that likes to film myself all the time. I put myself on display and I think if you self-publish, you really have to do that, like Andrea Murray and Joji you know, and. I'm not really comfortable with it yet. So that's yeah, so that's why I choose now to do it this way, but might change in the future.

Speaker 1: 23:42

Yeah, yeah, it's definitely something that other business owners here have mentioned oh, yeah as well, being uncomfortable in front of the camera and feeling the need to be in front of the camera a lot of the time and so struggling with that, yeah, um, how do you deal with it? How do you?

Speaker 3: 23:58

move forward. Do you accept that you don't like it and you?

Speaker 1: 24:02

leave it that way, or do you have?

Speaker 5: 24:04

ways to learn yeah, I do try to. I have a really nice picture from the back which I like to send in, but I also try to be a bit more confident, or just you know. So I do sometimes now go online to show my face because I notice people want to connect with you as a designer and also with personal stuff, like a photo of my workspace they really like and I'm like, oh, should I put it up? So I'm also learning. Like you know, don't have to be show my face all the time, but I can show bits of my world or my work practice which people are like just your hands yes, I follow somebody that has this account not showing herself that's the goal and gaining more uh viewers.

Speaker 5: 24:51

So that's interesting.

Speaker 1: 24:52

You can do a face reveal at the end of the year and then drag people to your account and say we're going to do a face reveal.

Speaker 5: 25:00

It's a marketing publishing stunt you can do that.

Speaker 1: 25:05

I was quite good at it, but I have to relearn it again and it's really a matter of doing it a lot, so you get used to it.

Speaker 5: 25:14

I must say, in like life, with workshops and being here, I like that. I like to connect with people, especially also in workshops, because my work is always on my own, you know. So I like to have it come alive in workshops and see people and interact with it. But like online is a bit different.

Speaker 1: 25:33

Last question Is this your full-time job, part-time job? How?

Speaker 5: 25:40

do you look at it? It's kind of full-time, but not in financial, so you don't rely on it. You can't rely on it.

Speaker 1: 25:49

But in terms of hours you'll get perhaps over full-time.

Speaker 5: 25:52

Yes, definitely, but in terms of hours you'll get perhaps over full time. But also you just said you, you have started this a couple of years ago, yeah, I think only actually this fall, two years ago coming fall, my first designer spot.

Speaker 1: 26:08

It's also a big been a big peak for you in terms of being visible in all the publications and stuff, while you're still a designing baby.

Speaker 5: 26:16

Yes, I'm a chick. Yes, yes, beautiful chick Thank you so much and good luck.

Speaker 7: 26:22

Thank you, you too. Have fun Bonjour.

Speaker 2: 26:25

Bonjour.

Speaker 1: 26:26

Can you start by saying your name and perhaps your brand?

Speaker 11: 26:31

name, so I'm Cynthia. I'm known under the name from Cynthia on Instagram, and under this name I design animals to knit.

Speaker 3: 26:42

And that is specialism is knitting animals.

Speaker 11: 26:47

Yes, I'm specializing in knitting animals and I devote most of my time to knitting animals and to make other people knit animals and you made a book.

Speaker 1: 27:00

What's it called?

Speaker 11: 27:01

My book is named Moosh and Friends and also the subtitle is Seamless Animals to Knit and Love. Is seamless animals to knit and love? Yes, go ahead. So, yes, it's fully seamless for a very enjoyable process and to knit and love because they also aim to be used. I like the idea of kids playing with them and they really become parts of the families once they're done. There is something magical that happened and, from what I can see, they have a lot of personalities and they, they take place. They take their, their place in the family where they, where they are needs and it's better, and how many years have you done this as a job?

Speaker 11: 27:56

I'm in the sixth year. Sixth year now. Yes, I made my first pattern in 2018. It was Myrtle Bear, and I kept going with self-publishing and individual patterns and I started thinking about a book in 2021, and it was published in 2023. So a bit more than one year. And what is your role here? In the festival, I came to show my little animal friends, so for what is called a trunk show. So I came with all the animals and I'm here to show them to people, to also talk with people if they have questions and encourage them to give a try to this kind of knitting. And I'm also here to teach a workshop on how to knit a little animal. So it's a workshop where we go through the very few main techniques to knit them, because actually it's really more easy than it seems. It's not expert knitting at all, but in the workshop we are just going to cover the two or three points that you need to know and show that from there you can keep going and knit them easily.

Speaker 11: 29:21

You have to have a taste for this to knit small and tiny, but it's really more easy than it looks. And a lot of people put themselves on borders and they think they won't be able. I often hear I love it, but this is not for me. I won't be able and it's really not so difficult. So this is what I really want to show them. So part of your job is being a motivator yes, and a looker of a few anxiety and fears. Yes, this is what we do in the workshop Cool.

Speaker 1: 30:05

And when you talk about the business, do you see yourself?

Speaker 11: 30:09

as a business owner, I see myself first as a creative worker, because most of my time is dedicated to this, but I also have to think about how to communicate and how to sell, and so this part is the business part stuff. Yeah, is there anything about that part is the business?

Speaker 3: 30:32

part stuff Is there anything about that part of the business that is particularly hard for you or challenging it's social media.

Speaker 11: 30:42

It's still the main. Yes, I would say it's still the main stuff, not because I don't enjoy interacting with people I do enjoy this but because it's too busy and it takes you out of your focus very easily. So you tend to have your mind very busy after that and then it's hard to go back to a deep work or to focus. So I found it's the main things.

Speaker 1: 31:17

I'm struggling with. And also, if you don't know anything, how do you solve the problem? Where do you find your information?

Speaker 11: 31:26

Mainly on the internet. Google yes, I tried. Yes. The internet. Google yes, I tried. Yes. In France, it's more about the laws. You need to check what kind of status you need or how you have to declare your taxes yes, your taxes. So that's mainly what I'm looking for as information.

Speaker 1: 31:53

Is this your?

Speaker 11: 31:54

full-time occupation now? Yes, as a business it's my full-time occupation, but I have a lot of time dedicated to my youngest daughter too. She's with me each time she has a school break, so it happens quite frequently. So it's full-time inter-work, but it's not every day and not every day of the year because of the care I need to give up.

Speaker 1: 32:23

Do you rely on some of the income for as?

Speaker 11: 32:26

part as your income? Yes, but whether I had a creative job or another type of job, it has always been the same.

Speaker 3: 32:41

To work together.

Speaker 11: 32:42

Yes, we work together as a family and anyway I'm more present at home is a bit less, but it could have been the other way.

Speaker 11: 32:55

But anyway, it always has been this way of having the idea of having two incomes coming together for the family life anyway, and because I decided to be present for my daughter to be present for my daughter. It's also a choice to have this business staying in less hours than it could be, but in my mind I think that when she'll be older, it's also a business that you can move up and down according to your needs. So it's like for me I'm working also for the future and I see it as something that I will have the desire to keep on doing, yeah, when I will have more time too. So the kids are grown, yes, yes. So the idea is to keep going and to keep pushing myself in the limits of feeling a good balance yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 1: 33:57

Next up is my conversation with Melinda from Samalindaiworks. Melinda has lived in the Netherlands years ago and still speaks and understands Dutch. It's amazing, however, I am speaking Dutch, english and German this weekend and this is totally throwing me off. So this is a mix of multiple languages and bad sound. I have been debating how to share this conversation because she really had some really nice things to say. Basically, what we talk about is the same topics, and Melinda shares that she can't hire employees, and that's what's difficult for her. Doing everything yourself taking photos, doing social media ordering it's hard work and it's difficult to do. Doing everything yourself taking photos, doing social media ordering it's hard work and it's difficult to do it all by yourself. And she shares with me that when she doesn't know how to do anything or if she's new to some subject, she will ask her colleagues in the field, so she definitely connects to the community when she needs help. I'm going to give you a little piece of this conversation so you can get the vibe of this lovely, wonderful woman, melinda.

Speaker 7: 35:12

Yes, it is very difficult for one person and I don't want to have employees.

Speaker 4: 35:24

I don't earn that much money, so I can't give it to employees.

Speaker 10: 35:28

That's very difficult. Taking photos doing social media orders work.

Speaker 4: 35:36

It's not just about the color.

Speaker 5: 35:39

It's just the colors.

Speaker 10: 35:41

It's just a little bit of a color. Do you mean how to run a company? Yes, if I don't know something, I just ask my colleagues.

Speaker 3: 35:52

The community yes, is that good.

Speaker 9: 35:57

Yes.

Speaker 6: 35:59

And also rely on many people.

Speaker 4: 36:22

This is your opinion.

Speaker 1: 36:24

I hope you still got some of that wonderful energy that Melinda had to bring. We're going on with Silke from Funk Fiber.

Speaker 3: 36:33

I'm Silke, my second name is Funk, silke Funk and I prepared my brand name out of it in punk fiber. I like clear, bright colors when I knit. I like to play with color also, so that's my slogan play with color. And yeah, I like to play with color when I dye yarn and I like to play with color when I knit yarn, so it's obviously very bright, colorful yard.

Speaker 3: 37:02

I worked as a project manager for a theater project before and the development service and my first education was florist. It's just learning by doing. Are there any particular parts of running a business that are a challenge? Are there any particular parts of running a business that are a challenge? A kind of challenge is marketing, because I didn't learn marketing and present yourself and your products. That's quite something I slowly, slowly, grow into. How do you get your information? Good question, I have to think about it. Mostly I take a break and do something totally different to get the mind free. Yes, I ask people what they are doing. I ask colleagues, other yarn dyers sometimes, and yeah, these markets are perfectly for exchanging. Do you get enough time to?

Speaker 5: 38:12

hang out with the other people?

Speaker 3: 38:14

Yeah, I mean we have a day to prepare all these and you have all these little chit-chatters in between and people don't take it so serious. I mean many people, not knitters, not yarn lovers. They ask me you're dyeing yarn, can you live on that? And how is that working? It secures you. You always have to say I can't do it.

Speaker 1: 38:41

Thank you so much.

Speaker 7: 38:44

Thank you so much my name is nora and my brand name is kitzgarn, which is the berlin word for neighborhood yarn. A lot of my colorways are inspired by berlin, so yeah, so what are you known for? I would say it's soft speckles. That's one of my specialities. It's in the same color family, so it's not overly crazy colorful, so low contrast yeah low contrast and yeah, and right now I'm really into neon-y pastels.

Speaker 7: 39:24

So, yeah, and did you have a business education before you started? No, no, no, I just jumped into it. And yeah, learning by doing so, yeah, lots of mistakes on the way, yeah and um what?

Speaker 1: 39:39

are the things that you've found on the way, or maybe even now still challenging.

Speaker 7: 39:45

Yes, accounting, all the admin things are. I wish I could spend all my time being creative, but turns out there's not that much time for that.

Speaker 1: 39:58

So if someone gives you a thousand euros every month, what would you spend it on to help your?

Speaker 7: 40:04

business. What would I spend it on? To help my business. So I have an accountant already, so that's not, that's not it Actually. So I would take time for myself to do other creative endeavors, to be honest, like pottery, or just sit and knit. Yes, because, yeah, sometimes I need to recharge my creativity and, yeah, that would help. Yeah definitely.

Speaker 1: 40:30

Oh, that's a good idea. If you find challenges within building and growing a business, how do you find information? How do you learn new things?

Speaker 7: 40:40

from. I think I'm pretty well connected within the knitting community in berlin, especially um, and I just talk to people to be honest and see what other small businesses are doing not only in the textile business, but um other yeah, other small business endeavors and that really helps me like being connected and exchanging ideas, and so on yeah so four years ago, almost exactly not too long ago, yeah right at the start of the pandemic and I started with an Etsy shop and, yeah, it kind of took off.

Speaker 7: 41:22

I with an Etsy shop and, yeah, it kind of took off. I closed the Etsy shop, I went to a different platform.

Speaker 7: 41:27

I had my own Shopify. It's not sponsored. Etsy was fine for the start, was super good to start, but as I was growing, I was looking for and then take yourself seriously as a brand. It's just good to have your own. Yeah, is this your full-time job? So yes, basically it's my full-time job. I also work one shift per week at Bollembellin at the yarn store, which is nice to help with expenses and also it keeps me connected to the knitting community.

Speaker 3: 42:00

That's great as well. Would you say that you're getting enough?

Speaker 7: 42:07

out of it. Yes, so I am able to make a living out of it. It's not much, but it's enough.

Speaker 9: 42:15

Enough is enough right.

Speaker 7: 42:17

Exactly, and it's fun. I would do it again, but it's's. Yeah, it's fun, but it's also exhausting, so it has two sides to the coin.

Speaker 1: 42:27

Yeah exactly Would you have for advice if somebody is inspired walking around a festival like this, like I want to start a business, yeah, Just give it a try, I guess.

Speaker 7: 42:39

Find your own voice, like your own own style. Don't try to copy other people, but also connect yourself within the community. Yeah, I think for me it was super important.

Speaker 1: 42:54

Yeah, yeah, thank you so much, thank you my interview with Jule from hey Mama Wolf started off with catching up and then I had to remind myself to actually start the interview, so we already had a little bit of a conversation before we actually started the interview. It was really nice to see her again after six years.

Speaker 10: 43:20

After six years. Hi, I'm Jules and I'm the founder of hey Mama Wolf and also the creative director for Erica Night Yarns. And yeah, my hey Mama Wolf started with German wool that I dyed with plant eyes. And I'm not dyeing anymore, but some of the yarns are still plant eyed.

Speaker 1: 43:45

Yeah, great. And what would you say? Plant? Is that what people know your brands? If people hear, hey, mama bull, what do they think about? What's your brand?

Speaker 10: 43:51

yeah, it's sustainable yarns from Europe. So we are. Really what is most important for us is to find wool from Europe and make it into a good, sustainable product. Try to have short ways that the travels from raw wool to yarn to the shops.

Speaker 1: 44:12

And yeah, I think that's what I think you were at the beginning of a whole wedding.

Speaker 10: 44:17

Yes, I mean it really when I began with him, so I had this idea about 2013, 14 or something. There weren't a lot of sustainable yarns, plant dyed yarns or even yarns from europe. There were only a few companies who were selling this.

Speaker 1: 44:33

Yeah I remember starting when I started my shop. I was focused on natural yarns I mean that was a big thing before anything else. Yeah, and that's slowly, gradually changing to more and more, and I'm really happy.

Speaker 10: 44:46

I'm really happy seeing this whole sustainability thing and local production, that it grows so much and people are more interested where comes my wool from? And also going away from the super soft, super wash, bright colors like more, yeah, really, um, uh, have different experience also as knitters yeah, I think that the the palette of the knitter has changed over time.

Speaker 1: 45:12

Yes, we have. Uh, I say we. Well, I'll just say we. We have taught them to keep the olives of the new world.

Speaker 7: 45:22

You should try this. It's disgusting. No, try it again.

Speaker 1: 45:24

Oh it's actually pretty good, especially when you mix it with this.

Speaker 7: 45:29

Yeah, and so my friend Angela always kind of drops it on you. I don't, yes, you do it's really quiet.

Speaker 1: 45:42

It just felt like a very balanced presence next to me. So the questions here that I ask is to get a general view of the people here for the listener. My listener is either you or your neighbour, or somebody that is on a festival and thinks, oh my gosh, I want to do this for my job and my questions are all about did you have?

Speaker 7: 46:10

a business education before you started, did you?

Speaker 10: 46:13

yes I did so you're the first one. So I studied textile and surface design at the Kunsthochschule, at the art school here in Berlin, and part of the education was also how to say business development or something like that, so we were taught how to lead your own business.

Speaker 1: 46:41

That's amazing and uh would you say if there's something that you struggled with over the years, what would that be? Something that was more of a.

Speaker 10: 46:52

I always forget that word uh challenge get it all under one roof, like because I was always a one woman business. I had an employee from time to time, yeah, but if you do everything on your own and I'm kind of also a person that is like that I love to work in a team, but also I have a very exact vision of what I want to create. So if I'm doubt, I do it myself, you know so, and that's that was quite a learning curve for me to see, okay, where can I what, what are the tasks that I can give to someone else? And also, what I struggled with for the past years until I sold hey, mama wolf was, uh, social media, it's this constant doing, creating content, and I mean I love sharing what I do, but when the algorithm changes every two months and it, this is basically a full-time job just doing the social media thing, yeah, so yeah, these two things have come up a lot.

Speaker 1: 48:03

Social media and doing everything yourself are the two most important struggles for almost everyone here. Second to last question. So when you do struggle, or did struggle in the past, because your business is, how many years old now? Almost 10. Almost 10 years. Do struggle or did struggle in the past because your business is, how many years? Almost almost 10, almost 10 years. So how did you find ways of knowing new things? So how did you educate yourself? How did you learn how to do things?

Speaker 10: 48:36

yeah, talking to other people in the business very much. That helps almost always. And, um, yeah, I mean here in berlin I'm always was well connected because I worked in yarn shops before, so people knew me. So, yeah, that one and also, um, my husband actually always was a great support because, yeah, he went to art school as well, so if I had a question he always yeah, yeah, I could, could help me out doing decisions and stuff, but it could be a help, but it also can be a struggle because, uh, he's in, my husband is in the bike industry and I was like no, it's completely different in the art industry.

Speaker 1: 49:22

So last question, I mean you already answered it when we spoke before, but you sold your business to erica knight. Uh no to uh selected yards and my question would be is your job your full-time job? But yeah, I guess it is your full-time job, it's my full-time job and it has been for how many years now with selected yarns?

Speaker 5: 49:46

even before you sold your. Has it always been your full-time job or did you yes?

Speaker 10: 49:51

no, before I founded hey, mama wolf I was a freelance knitwear designer for uh fashion companies here in berlin and I was was doing costume design for films and so on. So yeah, I was kind of in the same business since forever, since I finished my studies in 2009.

Speaker 1: 50:12

And so you were always kind of able to get your income from the textile industry in different ways. This is it. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you for your time. Have a great festival weekend. Thank you you too. Well, I hope you enjoyed listening to these business owners as much as I enjoyed talking to them. I am going to try to give you an overview now so that you have the main takeaways that I got from this and have them nicely put together so that you can.

Speaker 1: 50:50

I don't know learn from it or be inspired by it or whatever they mean to you. I was talking to 10 businesses, some of which had multiple owners, so I'm just going to mention that they were 10 different businesses, aka brands, and I've got nine people that told me this was their full-time job, and four of them were actually relying on it for the full income. So not everybody is strictly relying on this business as their full income. They usually also had a second income in the household. Something that came up more as kind of an afterthought to these interviews and it's always kind of a little bit of a personal thing that people don't always feel comfortable talking about, and some of them actually really do is the fact that a lot of households have two incomes and running a business in this industry it's a lot of hard work and as a second income it's easier to do, but it's still a full-time job often. So that's a kind of interesting balance to keep in the back of your mind and think about. What also came up and that's really important to mention here is that lots of these businesses have only just started a year ago, a bunch of them two years ago, four years ago, then six and ten years ago, the one that's ten years old actually made huge leaps in professionalism. And at the same time there's one business that started only a year ago and the owner mentioned that she is almost ready to fully rely on this income. So that is amazing, but what is more generally the case is that businesses take about four years-ish to get to a point where the income is enough for themselves to rely on. So I wrote down a bunch of takeaways and I think one of the most interesting things I've seen is that a lot of businesses start as solopreneurs and some of them start as duos, and when they start as duos they already from the beginning have different talents under one roof and where the people that start by themselves, they reflect back and they say at a certain point you cannot do everything yourself, so you have to get in other talents, either hire them for a short amount of times or get them under the same roof in the same business, because people have different talents and your time is finite, so you cannot do everything. Lots of people do that for the first couple of years and then they realize that it's very tiring and even I mean this didn't come up and honestly it didn't come up at all during these interviews. But knowing from experience my personal experience, and over a few I was going to say a few decades, but well, it's been a while a decade and a half, I would say I have come across so many business owners that run into burnout, and it's too much.

Speaker 1: 54:38

So finding others that can help you, that support your business whether that is inside of the business, or hiring them to do more practical things, is definitely, at some point, something that's very, almost well, necessary to do when it comes to product development. Necessary to do when it comes to product development. Anna from Wondersy had this amazing advice telling us to focus on one thing, test it, and only when it's tested and proven itself then move on to the next thing. As creatives, as designers, we want to do everything and we love everything all at once. As a business, it's very smart to test something, see if it works, and if something works, double down and then move into a new thing.

Speaker 1: 55:34

The hardest thing people run into is self-promotion, and then particularly self-promotion through social media. If you want to do it right, they say it is a full-time job and your job is something else In itself. This is not possible being present on social media or doing your marketing in general, is hard in different ways because it takes up a lot of time, but it also asks for some skills that you might or might not have. So, in what we know, it might be a great idea to see if somebody else can do your social media. That sounds weird because it's such a personal thing, but if you have somebody that just takes images of you at work, just comes in once a week to have a little chat with you and then goes out and turns it into social media posts, think of maybe even a niece that you have that is really creative and who wants to go in this direction. It doesn't always have to be a super professional. That just depends on where you are in your business.

Speaker 1: 56:53

But don't be afraid to try out things because, as we also established Because, as we also established, marketing is basically simply trying out different things, seeing what sticks and sticking with it if it works. So don't feel overwhelmed by the whole marketing thing. With your creativity, there's so much that you can do, and you can do it in a lot less time, which moves us in to the next thing, and that is the community. A lot of these business owners. As I asked them what do you do when you don't know about a thing, when you don't have experience or the skill to do a specific thing, how do you proceed? And they come back and they say I go to the community. I ask my colleagues and this is such an amazing thing because obviously I would say that, because that is the core of what I'm doing I'm bringing people in this industry together so that they don't have to reinvent the wheel every time. They can talk to each other and listen and hear about how they solve their problems that the other person might have as well.

Speaker 1: 58:11

And what is key here, and what I really noticed in doing these interviews, is that sometimes people are afraid of sharing details that they don't want to share, like, say, what do you make at a festival, or can you rely on this income, or what is the recipe of dyeing this color of yarn? But these are not the things that you share. These details are for you. Or, if you want to, you can share them, but you don't have to. In the Yavol community that we have created online, we don't share things that are secrets, but we learn a lot from each other anyways. It's just practical information that is basically available to everybody. But who wants to spend the time figuring it out when your quote-unquote neighbor already knows what to do?

Speaker 1: 59:06

I was so happy to hear people reach out to their colleagues for these kinds of things, and when I asked at a festival, do you actually have time to dive into this? Because my question was when do you hang out with other people in the industry? They said on festivals like this, and while we are setting up and breaking down our stands or booths or stalls or whatever you want to call them and in this case they also had a dinner together. There is, however, not a scheduled, structured topic of conversation list going on. It's very conversational and fun and there's a lot to learn and to connect there, because then when you connect at a festival, you can always, whenever you have a question you have made connections and go back to these people and ask them about it. With the Yavol community, what I want to do is make that step even easier. Just, you're all together in this community and you can just post a question and then whoever knows the answer can just type it in and it's there 24-7. So it's a whole bunch of colleagues all at the same time. That's enough about the Yavo community.

Speaker 1: 1:00:32

I just found it really encouraging to know that people are actually looking at each other for help, and when it comes to laws and regulations for specific countries, people tend to go to Google for that kind of thing. Another fun thing that came up is um, well, the fun more interesting is that once you start running your business and you're into it a few years, you realize that you don't really have that much time anymore to do the specific thing that you love doing. The creative part, the designing part, all kinds of other practical stuff take up up your time, and it's super important to keep connected to your creativity and to your passion, and so making time, taking time, actually taking time to do this for yourself, is super important to keep your burning burning love for what you do, to keep that love going. So focusing on planning well and making sure that you have time left to do the thing that you love doing and planning is also something that people think of as a hard thing to do. From my perspective, I have so many tools that can help you with good planning that I am just itching to teach this to people, one of which, of course, is the bullet journal, but there's other great tips that can help any type of person. Whether you feel like you thrive in chaos as a creative, or whether you have to super organize everything. There's a lot that we can learn to have some better planning and to have some time left to do fun things with our families as well, speaking of which a lot of these entrepreneurs they do have families relationships, and their business is not all that they do, so finding that balance is a big thing and an important thing for them.

Speaker 1: 1:02:41

I think the major thing that came up is you cannot do it all by yourself. That is just a recipe for burnout, and I know some people have a really hard time with that because they are the creative brain behind their brand and it's really hard to let go of some things. But it can be done, and there are excellent examples of businesses that have done that in this report and the other, like the sentence that came up so much was how did you manage to build a business in this industry? And people say just learning by doing. Learning by doing. That's partly how I did it too. I did have a marketing education, I did have an art education, so a bunch of courses along the way and a lot of experience from doing that kind of learning is really great, but it also takes a lot of time. So it's trial and error, a lot of trial and error, whereas I think with what I know now, there is a lot of time that you can skip. If you just learn some basic things about running a business, it doesn't have to be hard. It takes a little bit of time, investment, some money, investment and then you kind of have a plan and a way forward that is really helpful to grow your business. So for all those dreamers that have been listening and that are inspired, I would like to say follow the example of all these beautiful entrepreneurs, designers, and follow your passion. At the same time, make sure that you really take it seriously and take care of yourself and learn some of the skills that are needed to keep yourself happy and healthy, and don't do it all by yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:04:52

I, coincidentally, have built a course that is exactly about all of this teaching you things about branding, marketing and selling in a way that is really not all that difficult. There's not a man in a suit talking to you. It's people like you, from the same industry. We work together as a group with a book full of exercises, and the exercises are meant for you to do them in the moment, so you don't have to go back and do the work later. You do them as you go through the course. It's a three-month course. It goes with live meetings. We have a community where you can hang out together. There's work sessions together. There are one-on-one sessions with me. It's basically a short-form business education where you immerse yourself for three months, do the work and come out of it much the wiser, especially also because we look at what you need as a person, where your values are and your boundaries and how much time you can actually work. So it's what I like to call a holistic perspective for running a creative business. It's super valuable. I've had business owners go through it, one of which was actually also here in this episode, and we just love hanging out together and talking about all different kinds of things that have to do with running a business. Whether you're a yarn dyer, a teacher, a designer, we've got place and space for everyone, and the next cohort is starting in September, so there's enough time to get ready for that.

Speaker 1: 1:06:45

I hope that you loved listening to this. If you want to know more about these entrepreneurs and these brands. I have all of their information in the show notes. Find them at patternshiftfm and go to the latest episode. They're right there. Also find links to full interviews with Saskia Maas from Ovis Etc, maaike Breijelaar, maaike van Gijn at Breijelaar and Cynthia from Cynthia, and let me know how you like this episode. If you have any questions, you can find me at info, at ja-wolcom or at the website. You find all the information you need. If you want to go on instagram, I am at underscore yeville, underscore pattern shift. See you there. Thank you do. Are you still listening? I always love this music so much I have a hard time cutting it off. So if you're still listening, don't forget sign up for the newsletter. You'll get all the information about new episodes, the community, the business circle, all the things that I'm up to helping small businesses in the needlecraft industry. Yeah, that's it. I'm wishing you a wonderful, wonderful day and hope to have you with me next time. Bye.