#47- Janne de Hoop @ Hollands Wol Collectief on turning local wool into product

Before The Holland Wool Collective came along, tons of wool was going to waste. There was a gap between people who had wool, people who processed it into a usable product, and wholesalers or designers who needed the material.

Farmers in the Netherlands needed more options as far as who to send their wool to; there wasn’t anyone gathering that material to send it to be processed it into usable medium– like felt or yarn. At least, not until Janne de Hoop and her partner Mirthe Snoek came along.

Within a week of launching their website, they had received at least 30 calls from sheep farmers with wool to get rid of. Still in the early stages, Janne from the Hollands Wol Colletief gives us a sneak-peek into what goes on behind the scenes in this start-up cooperative that utilizes what, in the past, was going to waste. What a joy to have her with us!

We talk about taxes, balancing work life and personal life, launching a company with a friend, and figuring things out as you go.

LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

https://www.hollandswolcollectief.nl/ 

Martin Oosthoek Landschapsbeheer - Rotterdam Shepard -

https://www.maoosthoek.nl/ 

CONNECT WITH JANNE & MIRTHE

https://www.hollandswolcollectief.nl/

https://www.instagram.com/hollandswolcollectief/

https://www.facebook.com/hollandswolcollectief

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This episode was sponsored by Ja, Wol. I promote my own services and products in my podcast rather than working with sponsors. I will share the odd-discount for things I fully support and use.

Chapters

• 1:44 What is the Hollands Wol Collectief and what do you do well?
• 6:01 What’s the problem with Dutch wool?
• 10:02 What is the future of felt processing in Europe?
• 16:45 What was hard about starting your own business?
• 22:25 Most of the wool comes from Texel sheep.
• 26:38 Wool is the solution for everything.
• 30:49 How does networking work in your line of business?
• 36:09 How do you connect with your partners?
• 42:23 Hos do you mix work and private life?

Transcript

Saskia de Feijter: 0:04

Hi, my name is Saskia. I've got over a decade of experience in running a small business in the needle craft industry. I'm obsessed with the healing magic of crafting and the power of community. dreaming big about a world where we rely on value based businesses, the kindness economy, and where we can fully say, Fuck fast fashion. A smaller life aims to inspire you to look at your wardrobe differently. Where do you buy? How do you use your clothes? And can you make some of it yourself? We learn from experts in the needlecraft textile and creative industry big names and small about what it's actually like to run a small business. I'm educated in marketing and photography, and learn to do everything else on the job selling patented product design, teaching and running a needlecraft school. As a small business owner, you're in charge of everything branding, marketing, selling, promoting and cleaning the loo emotional talks with sellers about wins and woes, product and design conscious decision making, why we do it, how we do it, and what we need to become the future of fashion without burning the help apps. And I'm determined to lift our Cena for the world to notice so they can step away from fast fashion. So Jana, I'm so happy that you're here to talk to us about its hold on small collective or the Dutch will collective welcome to the podcast.

Janne de Hoop: 1:44

Thank you. Nice to meet ya.

Saskia de Feijter: 1:47

Yeah. So there's a lot to talk about that. First of all, let's start off with what is the HoloLens for collective? And what do you do?

Janne de Hoop: 2:00

Well, the HoloLens well collective started about a year ago, when we found out that there were some missing parts in a supply chain of the tool, because it wasn't used anymore. A lot of farmers just kept it at their farms. While at the same time, there is a high demand for new biobased materials. And we're shipping wool from all over the world from Australia, New Zealand all the way here. Well, here, it's being wasted. So we said, we're going to make sure that that will is processed again, which means we're buying the wool, we make sure that it's sorted, that is washed, and we turn it into design felt. Because then we can use the different qualities that are available in Netherlands into valuable product. We sell it to other parties that want to use the felt, for example, in the interior industry for acoustic panels or furniture, those kind of things. So we're really the middleman to make sure that all the wool is processed again.

Saskia de Feijter: 3:00

Yeah, and that that's just amazing that you do that because from close by I, I've experienced that I talked to a sheep farmer, the Rotterdam sheep farmer, you probably know him Martin Martin. Yeah. And he told me a few years ago that they would burn the wool, and it was more expensive to shave the wool, then what did he say? I mean, it was, it's so crazy to throw away all this wonderful material. And we as crafters know, what the traits of all are and what it can do and how wonderful is as a material and I'm so glad you started this and, and build on this idea of not letting the world go to waste. So you process it. You buy it from the farmers?

Janne de Hoop: 3:55

Yeah, yeah, we, over the past years. It's funny because we didn't have any experience in wools, specifically, apart from a little bit of knitting ourselves. So we went to visit a lot of farmers past year and found out that they have tons and tons of wool. I think about 180 farmers contacted us over the year. With in total, I don't know how many but a lot of all, yearly, all the farmers in the Netherlands together have about 1.5 million kilos of wool.

Saskia de Feijter: 4:26

So you buy and you sorted and how does that process work

Janne de Hoop: 4:30

in originally, there's three kinds of rules available in the Netherlands. So you have the white wall of high quality sheet. You have the dark wall, so that's brown, gray, black, brown or mixed. And you have a wall that is said to be the lowest quality which is the wall of Martin or other sheep that are mostly used for grazing. It is said to be the lowest quality but when we looked into it and also We heard from other projects, for example, with Martin. So who is that, although it's very big variety within art, the quality can be actually quite good. Even suitable for clothing maybe. So the key is looking into those hurts, sorting it accordingly. And then make sure that all the different qualities available in the Netherlands are matched with the right products in the end, right. Yeah, so and we're on the start of learning everything about the availability of all the qualities. So the starting point is we have we still have those basic qualities, mostly white and mixed. And the mixed color depends, of course, on the amount of brown or black sheep that were in the herd so it can be more gray or more brownish. And that's the qualities we have. And while looking into it the coming years, we have to find out what is actually drew about the qualities, or what are myths that we actually need to tackle. Yeah.

Saskia de Feijter: 6:01

Yeah. Because it's really interesting, because I've actually gotten a fleece from one of Martin sheets years ago, and oh, my God, they're so dirty. Let me just for context. Martin, do you know his last name now I forget. Oh, so yeah, he has a big flock of sheep that he lets roam, basically, around the city not really roam, they set off spots in the city where they graze. So I exercise on next to the highway. And yeah, a lot of the times the sheep are grazing there. And there are two shepherds there to bring them there and to set up the fence. And you can tell that the sheep are really really dirty. I think perhaps that's why the they say the quality is low, because they they're their fleeces are full of this souls. And you really ask there was such a hard work to clean it. I think I gave up halfway through what's really bad to do it by hands. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's

Janne de Hoop: 7:11

a lot of things in there. And it depends on where they've been. Yeah, especially when they do their maintenance of the parks around the city, then there are a lot of bushes that they like to scratch themselves against. And then that all gets in there. Yes,

Saskia de Feijter: 7:25

definitely big difference when a flock is just on one field. And that's it. And then they will not nearly get as dirty or as

Janne de Hoop: 7:35

that might still be a bit of grass or hay or something. But yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 7:38

it's different. Okay, that's so cool to know. So you buy it? Did the farmers find you? Or do you go out and find the farmers?

Janne de Hoop: 7:48

Well, so far, they found us. That was also the test last year, because when we started out, we heard the rumor that there was a lot of wool available, but it wasn't really we weren't really sure. So what we did is published our websites that was on the second of July, so almost exactly a year ago. And we thought, well, there's a website, and then we'll see if it's really a problem. Let's first establish that. And then we can see if there are people interested in who and how we can match that. And within two weeks, we had over 30 calls for farmers that wanted to get rid of their wool, just by getting on a website just by putting up the website. And then in September, there was a lot of media attention after article in the in one of the main newspapers here. Yeah. So then there were another 50, farmers had contacted us. So yeah, then we thought this is for sure a problem, I really need to work on this now. Which also resulted in both of us quitting our jobs in in autumn. Last year, this might

Saskia de Feijter: 8:48

be a good moment to introduce your partner in this whole endeavor.

Janne de Hoop: 8:52

Yeah. Yeah, were two of us. So we started out and we know each other from our masters, integrated product design in Delft. And we did a couple of projects together on different materials. Were one of the highlights, or lowest points was that we did a project together for yachting company. Oh, yeah. Which was an interesting project. But as we were taught also, in our studies, it was about importing materials from all over the world, make sure that it's high end, that it's really expensive, that it looks expensive, not really taking into account the materials that are available close by. So we thought why not put all this knowledge from the past years to use in our surroundings. That being said, we both worked somewhere else for a few years, meters that are working on the startup and I started working for the government. So really different bets in that way. And one half year ago, we thought oh, is everything about that ambition we had back then our shared vision is still for Well it, can we do something about that? Well, it definitely is. So we thought we need a trial project, to see if we're still working together. And we stumbled upon a hackathon that was organized by the governments actually, about the Rotterdam rule, mostly, together also with the municipality of Rotterdam. And then we just subscribed, I thought, well, let's see what we can do about this. And immediately from the start, we noticed that in that group, there were a lot of entrepreneurs that wanted to work with wool. But all of them either didn't have the capacity themselves, or lacked the right amount to actually make sure that it's as watched, because she needed a quite large amount to actually make sure that you can process it economically. So then we said, well, we're going to do that. And well, it escalated a bit.

Saskia de Feijter: 10:52

So now you both working full time on the project.

Janne de Hoop: 10:55

Yeah. Since December?

Saskia de Feijter: 10:57

Yeah. Just yeah, grabbing back to the process, you buy a sword, and you turn it into felt?

Janne de Hoop: 11:03

Yes. Okay. What we established is that there are still people in Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, France, that have knowledge about how to process wool, there are still some companies operational when it comes to processing the law. But those companies are, well, the machines are most of the times antique. And also, not always, but there are some facilities, that the personnel is also either lacking or ancient. And we thought, this is the moment to grab these people, because I have so much knowledge about everything that is still there, about the machines, you see people that are literally married to their machinery, which is amazing to see. And you also see that it's very crossbar vulnerable, vulnerable? Yeah, it's a very vulnerable situation, where are those people are of that big importance. So what we set out to do is try all these facilities. So we send wool to different parties to see what is still possible. And at the same time, look at what what is the market actually requiring? So do they want filled yarn? What do we need to work on? And to make sure that we can process the largest quantity as soon as possible, we decided to focus on felt first, because you could easily process a lot of wool. And then when we get better at sorting it, you could also look into the yarns. And yeah, scale I

Saskia de Feijter: 12:37

go. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a huge gap to fill in the Netherlands, and I'm super happy that you are you are doing this now. Those machines, I think returning listeners know that I have such a soft spot for the huge ancient machines that will probably outlive the people that know how to handle them. And they they are great quality, but not always of this time. So do you still work with these kind of factories? Or are you planning to, to take it to the Netherlands? Or what does that look like in the future?

Janne de Hoop: 13:20

Yeah, both. I think being industrial designers, both of us, I think our dream is to have a processing facility that you can visit, and you can show how the will is processed. And at the same time, there's a couple of organizations in the Netherlands that are still doing an amazing job. So yeah, we're trying to work as closely with them as possible. Yeah. both Yeah.

Saskia de Feijter: 13:48

Yeah. Cool. I'm so curious, as a business owner, if if you are buying the wool from that amount of farmers, are you a business? Or are you funded by the municipality, the government? What is your kind of business model?

Janne de Hoop: 15:02

Well, from the beginning, we said, we need to be business because we want to prove that this is also economically possible. We want to do it in a way that the people can be paid because the fact that you put effort in the wool is very valuable. And we also like in our society, we need to be clear about the effort, we need to put in the products that we use on a daily basis. So already before we thought about working with wool, that was the basis of setting up a company for us. Of course, in the first few years, it's still hard to immediately get all your money from sales, but in the bases we we sell the wool that is process and the percentage of that is for the hours that we put in, of course, and at the same time for setting up our business doing different researches right now. Oh, thinking about our business model looks like we have a few governmental funds that helped us greatly. So we're really, really thankful for that. That really made sure that we could actually do it full time from the start. Yeah.

Saskia de Feijter: 16:09

So did you get in your studies that you also get information on how to run a business? Or how do you? You're more like products, designers?

Janne de Hoop: 16:19

Yeah, yeah, we are product designers. At the same time. I think the entrepreneurial spirit is very encouraged in a way. So yeah, we thought we could do this. Let's just try. Because doing it felt very logical. So we just looked at each other. We're like, Okay, let's do this. And we see where it brings us. At the same time, there's course a lot of things that you stumbled upon that are totally different than you expected. Of course, you need to decide everything yourself. Also, you need to talk about all the worst case scenarios, what happens if someone wants to quit, or runs away with all the money? So it's kind of conversations that you have to have in the beginning? And also, yeah, in general, you need to do your finances, you need to get an accountant. Actually getting an accountant was a bit of a hurdle. Because how do you decide who is a good accountant? When you have no experience with accountants?

Saskia de Feijter: 17:15

Well, yeah, in my case, anybody but me?

Janne de Hoop: 17:20

Yeah, so there are things that you didn't think about in advance, which, which I think is a good thing. If you if you knew everything that yeah, you would never start. But yeah, so ever regretted being a business in general.

Saskia de Feijter: 17:32

Yeah, right. Right. I love that. You said that, because projects like these kind of, in a way come off as as if they are government supported, but I love that you're looking into it as, or that you are running it as a valued based business coming from a value that you both have, and really trying to show that we can actually make money. While we're on the topic, I want to invite you to go over to www dot j a hyphen, w o l.com/pages/businesses. Don't forget the w's they're important. If you're interested in doing this kind of work within, let's say, 12 weeks, the next DVB C cohort is happening soon. And you can sign up to get updates or get some more information. And as I'm always saying, you are welcome to email me with questions. I'll even be happy to answer any of your questions on a short call as well. Trust the process, do it messy. circularity is one of your funnels, right? Yes,

Janne de Hoop: 18:39

yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And with circularity, people usually only think about resources when it comes to the inability. So they talk about the materials you use. But for us, that's also about the people, the people we use and the value they put in. So that's also why we say that the farmer should be paid for the wall, although you can get it for free nowadays. That means you totally ignore the fact that they put effort into storing it, sharing it, all those kinds of things. And at the same time, we need to have an open conversation about it like what value do we attach to the work they put in? We asked them also to process the will differently, so we can use it better. That's of course easier to say, we asked you to do something and we pay you for it. But yeah, what's the amount you pay for it? And how does that translate. So it's also still a conversation that we're having and constantly bringing up

Saskia de Feijter: 19:37

tweaking? It sounds like there's a lot of research involved in your work. This is probably a process of years before you really get like an oiled machine.

Janne de Hoop: 19:50

Yeah. And at the same time, you just have to do it and start and see where it brings you. So at first we thought you have to have a strict business model, you need to know your revenue streams, that of course, the bank wants to know that if you go there for investments or something, and that's also what people tell you. So we set off to make a plan five years, how does all our finances look? And what do we need to do? And then same time we thought there's so many things we don't know, this is our current situation. This is where we're gonna work out and then half a year later, we already noticed okay, this was totally rubbish. Let's let's throw it out the window and start over again. And I think that's that is the research part. You keep doing that again and again. And of course you get better at it. But yeah, you only find out by doing it. So

Saskia de Feijter: 20:34

yeah, absolutely. I would say as a professional in the knitting world or in the crafting world. Texel is not up there with that say, I don't know Alpaca Merino. I love a good hearty local wool because That's what I think has the most value. But lots of people think that if they use Well, it has to be soft and all of that. So how does Dutch will go into that kind of comparison?

Janne de Hoop: 21:10

Well, what i While originally, what you saw is in the whole wool business world, right? Different countries focused on different industries, because the wool of that area was particularly good at that. So that's why in England, they make all these beautiful blankets. And here in the Netherlands, we focused on carpets, carpets. So reasonably, that is why the Dutch will is was valued very much, because it's very durable. The fibers be strong, thicker than like the Merino or something like that. So I think, if you look into the fiber, for for its qualities, there are still a lot of things that you can create, by using those qualities. Yeah, I still think that that carpet is a is a very interesting industry to look into. Yeah. And at the same time, we also found out that there are actually well, specific sheep actually, there that have that very soft wool. So yeah, there are still both but yeah, at the same time, originally, and also, generally, most of the Dutch will is indeed not really suitable for clothing.

Saskia de Feijter: 22:25

Yeah. For the, for the fiber freaks, is most of the tool Texel wool, or deselect?

Janne de Hoop: 22:35

Yeah, as far as we know, that's the largest quantity.

Saskia de Feijter: 22:38

Yeah. And then you have kind of the meat sheep. I'm not sure what kind of free SR is so? Yeah, yeah. So I've knitted with Tehsil tesselaar. wall before, I never know if I say Tehsil or techshow. Because in English, it's texel, and then I forgot, forget what it is in Dutch. But anyway, it's course. But if you are not a sensitive person, um, you can still knit garments out of it, you can actually really use it as outer garments. So I wouldn't knit like underwear. But they still have some great quality here in the Netherlands. So it's really interesting to see where that will go with the sorting and the grading of the different kinds you will do in the future.

Janne de Hoop: 23:27

Yeah, and the challenge is also that we have a lot of different kinds of shapes. And that's really cool. Because only to look at them as already very interesting. With the horns, different shapes of horns. Yeah, exactly like the like the poster there. So, yeah, that I would not want them to get rid of all those different kinds of shapes and only go to two cones or something. But it does result in a lot of different kinds of wool.

Saskia de Feijter: 23:56

Yeah, so now you grade by color, mostly to make fat. Because I can imagine that there's hobby farmers that have Shetland Sheep, which are great for for knitting and would make a beautiful felts, I'd imagine. But you will probably now mix everything together, because those amounts are too small right, too.

Janne de Hoop: 24:16

Yeah, exactly. If they have like five sheep, or maybe up to 10. Yeah, that's still really, you know, yeah. The amount of course, yeah. Well, it's

Saskia de Feijter: 24:24

so interesting to hear all of that. So can you tell us a little bit about the projects that you are working on? Or the partners that you work with? Do you do things and products for yourself? Or is it mostly partners you work with with the finished product? Yeah,

Janne de Hoop: 24:42

exactly. We work mostly with with different partners. In general, what we did the past half year was set up different projects to set up our company itself. So we did a project funded by the stimulating phones together with some architects that focused on the future of goo. So we made a vision on how the future of touch will should look like. And then we got into startup in residence program, which meant that we had coaching and that also the province of South Holland is funding showcase of wool in the workplace. So we're going to build a showcase for them that shows all the different possibilities of wool, in acoustics, in furniture, in desk dividers, all those kinds of things. And while working on that showcase, we are doing market research and talking to a lot of different people that implement the work and implementable and what we found out is that mostly in the acoustic branch people that are really interested, there is still a long way to go. Before we have the different types of foods certified for their acoustic properties because it's quite specific also for the Different types of work, but what you can see is that it does contribute to the acoustic qualities but also what we found really important is that we visibly process to walk so that it's like a cover for a panel or something like that. So people see what is there that it's Dutch wool, that that's the way how it actually looks like. And also the, the, the way that the fibers can also deal with humidity because they water and yeah, that that's also property that that is used in that way. So those characteristics of wool, we try to use those products to those applications that actually showcase those properties. The best and acoustic panels is one of our main

Saskia de Feijter: 26:39

targets. And they're they don't catch fire so they're unflappable, right is flame retardant. Yeah, they retarded. Yeah, so I was at Interior Design Fair last year in the vanilla fabric, and there was a lot of interest in wool to use wool for soundproofing spaces. The house I live in has, I think the word is mezzanine Vidya Aveda. And because I have so much war, and we have a large woolen carpet, and I have actual knitting yarn in the living room, you can really tell the difference in sound in our house compared to our next next door neighbor houses, same house. It's such a big difference and it's really really helpful to be able to experience the the magic of wool. And then it's it's really hard to decide on anything else. If you know what wool felt is and what it can do. And if you see like a plastic felts you go, Oh my God. Yeah, it's really it really feels like plastic. It's a completely different item. And there's so much you can do with it. I mean, wool is like the past, I always say all you need is a sheep and a tree. And you will be fine.

Janne de Hoop: 28:07

Yeah. And sometimes we ask ourselves, Is it us? Because the more we work with it, we think the wool is the solution for everything. So

Saskia de Feijter: 28:18

I agree. Yeah. Even in our community, when we talk about what is the yarn that you knit with in summer? They don't answer cotton, not even linen, because that's more stable. They say wool in different thicknesses, because wool does everything that you need. Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool. Yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about those specific products that are made right now? Is it mainly the soundproofing? Or do you work with fashion designers? So Bag Making? Are there any plans in the future? Looking for certain partners?

Janne de Hoop: 29:01

Yes, all of the above? Yeah, we have a quite a long list of people that we are talking to right now. We processed the first thing, 10,000 kilos of wool. So we're trying to sell that now. The first batch just got in last week. So we're calling out everyone that was interested to say, well, it's really there. And what do you want? What can we make for you

Saskia de Feijter: 29:31

sell it before it was made. Or

Janne de Hoop: 29:35

we're actually really lucky because of the funding of the province. We could do this this way. So that was a really, really great chance we got there.

Saskia de Feijter: 29:44

So people that are listening right now and they think like I could use some Dutch Felts. They just get in touch with you and they can buy.

Janne de Hoop: 29:52

What we do is produce a different types of Felts. So we have three or four types standard in our assortment, and then you can easily order those. Yeah, people can definitely buy it.

Saskia de Feijter: 30:05

Is it for consumers or business to business,

Janne de Hoop: 30:08

we focus on business, a business because we want to sell large quantities, doesn't mean that consumers cannot buy it. But it will be per 30 meters of felt probably. So that's larger, although we would like it to be available for consumers. Because there's, it's also a bar why we started because there's a lot of people that only want a small amount. And that's also why they couldn't process it themselves because it was too small. Especially if there's shops that sell to consumers. Yeah, those kind of places that can actually yeah, get rid of a rule of 30 meters and got that that would definitely be interesting to make sure that we can also sell it to consumers indirectly. So

Saskia de Feijter: 30:50

yeah, yeah, yeah. So a lot of what you do in your work is really goes around networking? Yes. Yeah. Do you visit specific places? Do you do it online? LinkedIn? Are you super active on social media? How does that work? Man, or does it go? Like organically?

Janne de Hoop: 31:13

It's a bit organically. I think that that's also why Mira and I are such a great niche. Because we have a little bit of a different focus. JMeter is usually more than one to go into depth, the processing on different qualities needed. So when it comes to talking to potential partners into detail about what they need, then then choose on. Yeah, and when it comes to more strategical networking things, and for example, maintaining the LinkedIn or Instagram or those kinds of things, then that's more my cup of tea, which is great, because of course, if I don't have the right information, I cannot really talk to people. So it really is a synergy between us that is needed to make this happen.

Saskia de Feijter: 32:00

Yeah, yeah. So and what does your typical workday look like? Do you work in office? Do you work together? Do you switch? Do you work in travel? What does that look like?

Janne de Hoop: 32:13

Well, our office is based in Rotterdam, and we both different Rotterdam. So that's close by. And when we started out, we immediately said we need an office, because working from home, well, I was sick of working from home. And I really do not function good there. So initially, we got an office for one day a week. And then within a month, we both quit our jobs. So they were there five days a week. But when it comes to our working hours, also related to the way we went to set up our company, who said we're not going to make like crazy hours each week. Of course, sometimes you have to work towards the deadline. But in general, you just have a normal week, normal amount of holidays. Because if you work like 70 hours a week, then you also prove that it is impossible.

Saskia de Feijter: 32:59

Exactly. Oh, I love that. You said that. Yeah, yeah. No stainable for you.

Janne de Hoop: 33:04

Exactly. So that's also a very important part. And it's not necessarily our best side, because we both really push ourselves and are very ambitious. So that's also nice to be with the two of you. I can say to metta oh, maybe you should go home. And then also she should say to me, shouldn't you go home already? I thought you were tired. Let's go. Let's go home. You sleep now. We also take care of each other that way. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah. Last year, it was really a most of the times it felt like we were working in a candy shop. Because visit all those amazing people learn so much about wool, about processing about ecosystems about the role of sheep. It was amazing. is amazing. Yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 33:45

yeah, every day. Any day? Yeah.

Janne de Hoop: 33:49

I was away for a week last week. And then I thought, Oh, I have to come back to work. Do I want that? I really like being asked for change notices work. And then as soon as I got in the office, I looked at my schedule. I was like, Oh, we have so many nice things to do. It's amazing. So many nice people to talk to. And of course, a large part is also us discussing how we make certain decisions. We talk a lot people that we share an office with are sometimes not that happy with us talking that much. But like sheep like. Exactly. Yeah. Because there's so many things we need to decide. And we really want to do that together. So first, it's really important to talk in depth about the values behind every decision we make. That's also why there's still a lot that we do behind our desk. But if we can go out and meet people go to companies go to farmers, then yeah, we definitely do that.

Saskia de Feijter: 34:46

Yeah. What would you say? Are your favorite tools in running the business? Could be anything hardware, software, techniques, strategies? What do you go back to a lot?

Janne de Hoop: 35:01

That's an interesting question. I think there's a couple of things that we do. Every first Monday of the month, we sit together and make a list of goals for that month. And I usually or forget about them. And each Monday morning in general, we make a planning for the whole week and decide what's happening, but especially the past month, it was that busy that the week before we already planned, completely filled up the whole next week. So that also happens. And then we do a lot of stuff. And then in the third week, you think Oh yeah, we had a monthly full. Yes. And we looked into it and then we are we decide, oh, we're actually halfway. Alright. So that's how it happened. So we noticed that because we set up that list, we are more focused about what our priorities are in that month. So that really helps. For really specific info Meishan like a contact details of people, but also project details or to do lists, we use a software called clickup that we're already had a lot of experience with in our previous job. So we also use her experience in that startup, for setting up those kinds of things. So that's what I also find really important is that you take time to evaluate the decisions you make. So each three months we sit together after we do our Texas, also doing Texas is nice is a good thing. Because if you have to pay taxes, you're doing a good job. Yes, it's true. And we support the tax system. So after we do our taxes, it's a party time. And I'm also sit together like well been, well, what do we need to improve on? And then so far? Every three months, we decided we're doing an amazing job.

Saskia de Feijter: 36:43

So you start actually celebrate your wins. Definitely. Yes. So that's important. So important. Yeah. That's cool. That's so cool. So how do you connect with your what do you call the farmers? Are they your partners? You have different target groups, you have the farmers on one hand, and then the designers slash businesses on the other hands? Do you have a system in place to communicate to them? Or is it just through email? Or do you use mailing lists? Or?

Janne de Hoop: 37:21

Yeah, we have a mailing list. And we divided in different groups also on our website. So you have the sheep farmers, and you have the like, the buying group. And then you have the sales part. And then we have also like knowledge institutes or those kinds of partners. So we divided in those three gets breached. And we don't really target them specifically, yet. But what we do think about when we set up our newsletter, then we think about, okay, what would this group have? As a question what with this? Are we answering those questions? Yeah. And then we put it together in one mailing. So yeah. And that

Saskia de Feijter: 37:58

can be interesting for all of them. Exactly. Yeah. Like this is still yes, yeah, is made for the crafters, but also those that want to start a business in grafting or already have a business in crafting. So that that works. That's really cool. So what are some of the hardest things you had to do to get this started? Or maybe still some of the hardest things you?

Janne de Hoop: 38:27

There's a couple of things. Of course, when we both quit our jobs, it was a, there was deep dive. But at the same time, it felt so logically that this was what we were supposed to do. So in a way, we kept looking at each other like this should be terrifying. But it isn't, why isn't it? Okay, this is just what we need to do, apparently. But at the same time, we noticed that of course, you need to take time to let that sink in. And, yeah, there's a lot of things happening. Every week, every week feels like three weeks. And I think there's, well, maybe three things that are a challenge. First, of course, finances, we need to make sure that we can pay our bills. But we noticed that there are so many people that are behind our way of working and our ideas. So in that sense, we never really stressed about it. No, it is. Yeah, but it is a point of attention in that sense. I think the second thing is that we are very lucky that we had a lot of media attention. But that also means that there's a lot of people coming to watch you both because they want to help you. And also because they have their own ideas. That's also why it's really nice to be together. So you can Yeah, keep each other sharp to really make sure we are true to our way of working and our goals and not go along with everything that is happening. So that is a challenge and probably will be a challenge all the time to still go back to yourself and think okay, what it is exactly that we want to achieve here. What is your mission? And is this contributing to that mission? And lastly, I think also something that is very important when setting up a business in general is how do you take your partner along, and your close friends because so many things happen? You really need to consciously talk about things that are exciting things that are coming up, and it's so easy to forget those big things. Actually. We were processing our wool for the first day, which is a very special day, of course, and we both forgot to tell our partners Yeah, yeah, that's really important. No, I

Saskia de Feijter: 40:52

love that you say that. I don't think This ever come up in this in this podcast. And it's so true. It's so true to have a connection with your partner and your friends so that they know what's going on so they can support you. It goes both ways. So thank you for sharing this. This is very, very good and very valuable. Yeah. And about partnerships, you already said a little bit about it. You are married to complement each other very nicely. Do you do specific things to make sure that you keep getting along? Or does it just go naturally? Yeah, it

Janne de Hoop: 41:32

goes naturally, because we've been talking about those kinds of things already for years. So we know we're really on the same page. And if we're not, then we keep talking until we are. We're really persistent in that way. When there's other people coming along, then I think that's going to be challenged how to bring them into our vision.

Saskia de Feijter: 41:52

Yeah. Celebrating,

Janne de Hoop: 41:55

I think celebrating is definitely and at the same time, we were friends and our friends. And because we see each other every day, it's also important to think about, okay, we're also we're also friends, we still need to do also next things next to just working together all day, and drink beers and have dinner and yeah, game. So yeah, that is a thing that you need to be aware of. And also, which is a challenge, not talking about work.

Saskia de Feijter: 42:24

That is a challenge. Not talking about work is a challenge. In general, I used to have a friend who hated me talking about work, but it was my passion. It was what I did, it was it felt like it was me. But it's also a sign that there's more to you than work so

Janne de Hoop: 42:41

and in a way, also, when we were together with other friends as well. They also ask how is your company going? Of course, or what to ask you want to you want to answer that question. But at the same time, you don't want to start talking about Obeah. With meeting tomorrow. What are we going to do at that meeting? So it's a very fine line?

Saskia de Feijter: 42:58

Yeah, definitely. i This has been a very valuable conversation, and not only the topic of what you do, but how you do it, and how you connect people together and how you use your network. Everything is very, very valuable. Thank you so much for sharing, I think I have one more question to round it off with what would be your, let's say, your biggest dream. Or you can choose your smallest dream for the near future or your biggest dream?

Janne de Hoop: 43:32

Well, we set out to put the circular economy in practice. And we decided that rule is really great material to show how the circular economy can actually happen. But what would be great is that people not only value us for the way we set up the whole supply chain, talk about big dreams, of course, like that's, that's that's the goal. But also they see the value in the circular economy and that it's the way to go. And you can apply those to different businesses so that that's why people come to us and look at the wool supply chain as an inspiration for separate economy. That's great. Yeah,

Saskia de Feijter: 44:18

it's lots of layers in the storytelling, like circular economy, the fact that you can have a value based business and then sustain it for yourself and wool as a product and how it's fabulous is all these layers of storytelling. There's a lot of marketing hidden in there. Thank you. You're doing an amazing job. I wish you all the best for the future. And thank you so much for coming in to tell us about it.

Janne de Hoop: 44:45

Why not? Welcome Thank you so much. Nice.

Saskia de Feijter: 44:55

Smaller life is the animals completely free way for makers and settlers to learn how to be part of a healthier take on clothes and fashion. Yeah, well offers an online community where they can connect and inspire each other monthly topics with challenges for makers and coaching and support for sellers. We will move the needle for more information go to J A hyphen w o l.com. Yep, oh,