Pattern Shift
Hi! My name is Saskia de Feijter and welcome to the Pattern Shift podcast. In this podcast, I support overwhelmed small business owners in the fiber and needlecraft industry, helping them set up and organize their businesses for growth and personal well-being. Together, we can be a force for good and a counterbalance to fast fashion, helping makers craft garments and accessories slowly and more sustainably. You can be part of that change and make a profit in the process.
Pattern Shift
#87 - Wundersie's Impact: Eco-Friendly Creations and Market Transformation with Anna Allers
Ever wondered how a small business can disrupt an entire market? Anna pulls back the curtain on how Wundersie is shaking up the knitting accessory scene with sustainable products, including eco-friendly needle cases made from vegan "leather paper." Her personal brand on Instagram is a vibrant showcase of these unique creations and a lesson in conscious consumerism. Listen as Anna discusses the challenges of starting a business in Germany and the importance of focusing on one's strengths to drive growth. With a partnership with renowned needle producer Addi, Wundersie is gearing up for even greater things.
https://www.instagram.com/anna.allers/
https://linktr.ee/anna.allers
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When you hear the word marketing, do you disassociate and run for the hills? Do you bury your head in the sand and post another story on Instagram and be done with it? You are not the only one, but sharing what you have with others spoiler, that's all it is isn't that hard. In fact, even the experts are just winging it. So relax, spoiler winging it is the definition of marketing. At the end of May, I visited the Berlin Wedding Wool Weekend, which had nothing to do with anyone's wedding. It is actually a part of Berlin where the event was happening.
Speaker 1:I met and interviewed some wonderful fiber business owners there and I shared that report in episode 84. One of the businesses there was Wundersee and it is run by Anna und Heiderun. I'm saying Anna und Heiderun, Anna and Heiderun, and I immediately spotted their consistent branding, their style, their unique products. Spotted their consistent branding, their style, their unique products. And when I talked to Anna, I was intrigued by her answers and found out she's got a background in marketing that explained a lot. Her knowledge and insights are clearly visible from her website, newsletters and social media. Naturally, I scheduled a longer conversation with her to find out more. So how can we learn more about marketing well, without getting the heebie-jeebies? Here's Anna, Anna, I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Patent Shift podcast. Hi, Saskia.
Speaker 1:Thank you for inviting me to your podcast. Yeah, I'm excited. Your brand just stood out to me in Berlin and I really had to talk to you and learn a little bit more than just the short conversation we had in Berlin. So how about we start off with a little bit of a kind of a quick fire short questions so that we can get to know you a little bit? Okay, okay, what has your day been like so far?
Speaker 2:Very busy. I usually need till very late at night and then I wake up something like 6.30 because I have to wake up my kids, bring them to school, and then I start my day, my work something like 9, 10 am, and I'll give you a sentence with some empty parts in it.
Speaker 1:I'll first say the sentence and then I'll ask you to fill in the parts. So I help people dot dot, dot because, or so that they dot dot, dot dot.
Speaker 2:I help people to be proud of their craft, of their knitting, of what they can do with their hands. I help people to start knitting because it's worth sharing. You should be proud of what you do with your hands, of what you can need for yourself, and because knitting is really like a meditation to me and it's worth, yeah, trying to switch off from your smartphone and do some knitting. You know, change the perspective and slow down, yeah, slow down, yeah.
Speaker 1:So is your business your main occupation, or do you have family? You mentioned your family.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course Family is my another occupation, but in the context of business, I do Wundersee well full-time, but I also parallel to do my. I have my clients. Well, I have one client at the moment whom I support with marketing, with social media marketing, right yes, um, that immediately makes it so clear why you stand out so much.
Speaker 1:Uh, how many years have you been in business?
Speaker 2:in this.
Speaker 1:Wundersee business. Well, almost a year, almost a year, very short.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very short, like from the moment we registered our company. It's been almost a year, but of course we started, you know, prototyping before, so maybe two years now, yes, right, yeah, and so far, what do you consider your biggest success?
Speaker 2:oh well that we. We started from scratch and we are it's, it's. You know, we are not there where I imagined us or wished us to be, but we are growing organically. At the moment, from months to months, we are growing in terms of figures, um and that's, and, and that's my biggest achievement, because it's not just the figures for me, it's the way I do it, the way I open up, I go online, I do social media, I show myself, you know, and it's a lot about mindset as well.
Speaker 1:Just quickly.
Speaker 2:You say we because it's you and your mother-in-law, right, my mother-in-law we registered together as equal partners, but we also have my husband who supports us with our B2B clients, right, and we also have a designer and a person who supports me with the content, with the cut in the content. So I have a small team.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, so quickly. A team already, but, like a family, is a team in itself and if they are willing to participate, there you are, there's your team. It's a great support. Yeah, yeah, sounds amazing. So we talked about your biggest success. I think that's a big success and anything that has been that you can label a failure or, if a failure is a little bit too much, a disappointment, so far that you are willing to share.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love sharing disappointments. I love sharing disappointments. Well, maybe the decision. I made a decision at the beginning of this year to do Wundersee full time. Like I said, I don't want to have any more clients, you know, I want to completely concentrate on our brand. I don't see it as a failure, but I think it was maybe a bit of a rash decision, because I imagined us having a much more um how do you say it? Umsats in english revenue, yeah, yeah, but it's not the case. And so I had to go back to my clients because I need to earn something. I'm not, you know, we are. Everything we earn with funda, zv reinvest in this business. I'm not, you know, everything we earn with Wunderse, we reinvest in this business. So I need my, you know, to live for something, and that's why I had to go back. But it's, I think it's part of the process, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, and your business is still young. I mean yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like. That's why I'm saying it's not quite a, but I always rush things and I want right now, everything what I dream of and that's what I learned don't rush, yeah, it will be. You will be there where you want to be. Just you know, do your thing constantly, day to day, and you will be there yeah, that's kind of.
Speaker 1:The next question is what? What took you years to learn? Well, maybe this didn't take you years to learn, but it's definitely a big thing to learn to trust the process and take it one step at a time.
Speaker 2:Yes, I I mean, I was, uh, I've been freelancing like I'm doing this whole. You know my own business since three years. Before I was working in an office, I was working in a big American company and I was an auditor or a revisor. I was employed and I was getting my salary, and these three years I'm freelancing and I'm doing marketing. It's been so transformational and the big thing I learned is to trust the process, not to rush the things. Yeah, this was my big learning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Is there any part of running your business so far that you absolutely, absolutely adore and love and want to do all of it all of the time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean creating a product, doing those all cute, beautiful things for our shop. Yeah, the wool, the products we produce ourselves or the products we buy somewhere else and then sell in our shop all this cute stuff. Yeah, I really like it not creating this also in my house, where I live with my family. It's a beautiful thing we did inside. That's what I love. That's what I love creating this atmosphere, this coziness we say in the Netherlands, gezellig and that's what I do in my business on our online shop.
Speaker 2:It's very aesthetical and that's what brings me a lot of joy packing the product, doing it all really beautiful nicely, so that the person who unpacks it like wow, and like this is so beautiful, and then you have a big, a better mood.
Speaker 1:You're like you're chill up and, yeah, this yeah, it's an experience, and a very positive experience for you as well as the customer by the sound of it. Last quick question and then we'll just start conversing um anything you absolutely do not like about running a business of course.
Speaker 2:Of course you have so much like accounting. I mean, even though I used to be an auditor. There are things you must do. You, you know we receive in germany, we receive, especially when you just registered. There are things, you have insurance. There are so many things you have to deal, like all those bureaucratic papers, accounting, doing the books and yeah, this all. Yeah, I have to do it and no matter how I feel I have to do it and that's and I do it. You know, I like to do it when I'm in a mood for it, yeah, but you have to do it till the quarter end and it doesn't matter if you're sick or tired or you want to need. You have to do these things and that's what I hate. The questions that I receive sometimes from the others who dream of doing a small business is like anna, how did you register? You know, like those, yeah, yeah, those you know, especially in germany. You know, because you, if you make a mistake, they will not be nice to you.
Speaker 1:No, no, but that's why I think it's I mean for me personally and I think for a lot of people, especially if you get that like tight feeling in your throat when you talk about, when we talk about these things, one of the best things that you can do is, as soon as you can afford to pay somebody to do it, just to hand it over and let somebody take care of it. That one knows what they're doing and two doesn't mind doing it because they are getting paid for it. But almost all of the time you have to do these things yourself in the beginning, and of course I did and I of course I know what to do, but I feel like I'm not the person to teach you those kinds of things, and that is somewhere else I can do the marketing, the branding, the communication, the soulful connection to what you need, all of that. And uh, I leave. Uh, I leave the rest to. But we, we do talk about money, but in other ways yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2:But. But bookkeeping is anyway where it depends on the country you're located in yes, definitely, that's also a big part of it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, yeah, um, so well, I think we got to know you a little bit from this. We know your likes, your perhaps dislikes, how long you've been on this path, the fact that you're doing pretty well and your wishes for the future. You still have enough to wish for. What we didn't mention is what is the unique thing about Wundersee? What do you offer your customers?
Speaker 2:well, we, we, we want to sorry maybe it sounds a bit big but modernize, transform this market, because I'm personally I'm tired of products which, yeah, which I just made just to be sold. Like plastic, you know, wool, that is mainstream. Um, some accessories for knitting, that I just not like, not nice, they just the. The market is flooded with with, with stuff which you know, like if you work on amazon, like you will got this project bags or something you like, what I will never want it for myself. I want something nice, I want, I want to, you know, get it out of my bag when I'm in a train meeting and I want to have it a nice thing and be proud of it and show it, have something elegant, um, and not some crap so I'm hearing you say uh, design material, uh, the conscious thinking of what you pick out with what you need, because we, we don't.
Speaker 2:We also we started selling wool in our shop, but not just any mainstream wool. We really we really pick the brands we will sell. Like we have an italian wool, that is really something special, because I want you know I'm learning as well myself where this wool is coming from and I also wish that the others would also think okay, where is my yeah, where are my materials coming from?
Speaker 1:Okay, and so the main product that most people know you for the type of products are needle cases and accessories, and they're made of quite quite an exceptional, interesting material. Can you tell us, talk to us a little bit about that?
Speaker 2:yes, the material is called um leather paper in german. If we compare it to the lilies jeans label yeah, I think they also. They do it now from this material as well. It's not leather anymore, it's right leather paper, so it's really a stable, robust material. You can wash it in, even in a washing machine, but it's not leather, so it's vegan and it's also sustainable. And it's sustainable because we buy this material in Germany in a small fabric which you know they would otherwise burn it because it has some small imperfections and they cannot ship it to their final customers. But we buy this paper with small imperfections. We cut our products, you know, without, of course, those imperfections, but we save this paper, which is an amazing material, yeah, and we produce our, our knitting needle organizers out of it again, right, like we are trying to not to create more damage with our business where we can yeah, and the look of them.
Speaker 1:Of course, people, we will. We'll give you all the contact information. You can go ahead. And actually, why don't you mention your instagram right now? Because people that are listening might want to just have a little bit of a view as they're listening yeah, well, my I'm that's my name Anna, point point alerts.
Speaker 2:So that's all for our Instagram, because I'm sort of a personal brand behind our brand and that's why we that's also where our business is running on my page, on my account yeah, so that's uh a n?
Speaker 1:n? A dot a l l e r s exactly. Thank you okay. That's it okay. So, going back to the look of them, I would describe them as, um, almost like an origami folding technique, and when you are looking at a shape like a triangle and then you fold it open, in one movement it becomes a rectangle, and the rectangle on the left-hand side has a circle stitched on it, and also on the right-hand side, and the circles are stitched with crosses, and so that gives you little pockets where you can put in your circular needles and also your sock needles I think they'll fit as well and some, maybe some small items, and you fold it together and then nothing drops out exactly and you can have this.
Speaker 2:You can. You can have it on your bookshelf, you know it's it stands it stands upside, and then you have the different colors.
Speaker 1:So there's uh, paper, brown, snazzy, uh almost lacquered lilac, which I'm especially wearing my lilac t-shirt today, because it's on brand and what else do you have?
Speaker 2:we have black, we have gray. Uh, then the the best selling color is, of course, natural is the neutral one.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, cool, um yeah. So that's definitely one of your unique selling points, is that those products yeah, the uniqueness of them, the innovative design is yes, definitely.
Speaker 1:There's nothing like that on the market Not that I've seen in any way and the way they're produced and the way they look, all of it together makes for a unique product. I love them. It's great. It is because and this kind of lands us into the realm of values it is because I have so many needle cases that I would have to throw away really well-functioning items that I do love. Otherwise I would just if I'd have crap or things I really didn't like, or if I was ready for an upgrade, I would totally make a bookcase with them because they're so pretty and useful and great. So, values you already talked a little bit about thinking about the environment. Is there anything about your business that you particularly are? What are particular things that you think are important in running a business, in dealing with customers?
Speaker 2:yes, it's. It's a good question, like because we are all competing, to be honest, we are all competing with amazon, right? Honest, we are all competing with Amazon, right? Mm-hmm, all small. So we have to be personal, we have to bear for our customers, because I cannot write to amazon and ask my questions, but my customers can write to me and I will always help them to pick up the wool for the project or pick up the right case for the needles. So this is the most important for small business to be like, reachable, and that's why we have, we try to have a telephone number, email everywhere and communicate everywhere you can contact us and that's what people do write us an email, ask us we are there for you, yeah, and and you're also very visible on your website and on social media.
Speaker 1:I think that I think that's one of the interesting things, that I want to go a little bit deeper to talk to you about this, because what I experience with my clients a lot of the time is they are too shy to show their faces and what you then get is going back to the Amazon thing is that you land on a website and you don't see your face and you just see products and it feels very businessy and you miss the kind of connection that you could have made with your customers, and I think you're doing a really good job with that. But you're also heavy, heavy on the social media. What would you say to people who are not comfortable in being on social media as much?
Speaker 2:Well, what helps me is doing it together with my mother-in-law. She's one of the shy person. She didn't want to do videos with me and we did this together and I was supporting her and it helped me also. Well, it's sort of I had to do it because, if you know, if she's shy, there is somebody from us who needs to be a face, who needs to be there because, exactly like it's a small business, this is the biggest and one of the yeah, one of the biggest advantages you have is that you are a person and that's why people buy from you, because you are there.
Speaker 1:So you have to show yourself wow, and I think you can do it, and there's a whole spectrum from not showing yourself to being a full content creator. There's everything in between find your format exactly.
Speaker 2:I never like. I started YouTube a couple of months ago and I never thought it would be so easy for me. You know there is another social media like LinkedIn, which is a text. It's it not really for us relevant for businesses like us, it's more, you know, b2b. But I was also on LinkedIn for a while for my freelancing and it was really difficult for me because it's a lot of text. It's not my format. I like a video. I just sit down and I chat and I talk, yeah, and then just working on my mindset, working with the coach who helped me to believe in me that you know I'm worse, what I'm telling and whatever barriers I have in my mind, I worked on them. So it was also a process for me to, step by step, open up and now I do YouTube and I'm like, wow, I really like it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So did you decide on working with a coach for that reason specifically?
Speaker 2:Well, I was freelancing and I changed basically my profession from auditing to marketing and I had a lot of like, if I could mind fucks, yeah, you can say that. Yeah, a lot of things like I'm not good enough. Yeah, I changed. I'm like, I'm not as experienced as anybody else on the market. A lot of things in my mind. That's why I went to the coach. But you know, working on those things, you of course clear out some other mindfucks you had.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you do.
Speaker 2:Helps you to go to be visible on social media.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I loved working with a coach. I mean, it's an investment, but you are investing in yourself and in your business and it doesn't have to be like super, super expensive. But I think sometimes we forget that in order to make money, sometimes you also have to invest money, not always, but, and there's other ways to go about it, like good chats with friends will help you as well, as long as you're willing to take their advice yes, yes, sharing with your family your difficulties, because my husband, he was always, he's still telling me Anna, you can do it, uh, and you know she's like, he's showing me the things I can do, good, and it helps.
Speaker 2:It helps. It also, like you know, gives me confidence.
Speaker 1:And if you know Woundersy and Anna and what she does online, you would never I would have never thought that you asked for help with this, because this is not how you come across. You come across as genuine and as a loving, kind person with a lot of feeling for aesthetics and enjoying what you do. That's what I'm seeing, and I'm also seeing somebody who takes a lot of effort in selling their products in a way that kind of feels good to you. It's not like yucky selling, but you're definitely selling your product. You're not selling your lifestyle and hoping that somebody will buy your product, and I think some people get a little bit confused about it.
Speaker 1:Their whole idea of marketing is just having an Instagram account and, of course, choosing your channel is one step and then figuring out how much of you you want to share, because what I said earlier on that scale from not being visible at all to being a full content creator. You cannot be a full content creator because that's a job in itself. You have to have enough time to do the things and make the decisions that bring your business forward, and that's such a bulk, such a it is Like even you know, even making the stories on instagram is a work that you have to schedule in your house you have to schedule time for it.
Speaker 1:It's not like you see, you know and stop, if you're, if your block of work time is over, and do something else. Yeah, I'm seeing your eyes go. Yeah, I should do more of that like, like you mean, block the time if you, if you, yeah, yeah, it's just or say, like Monday is uh content creation day and the rest of the week, um, maybe I will react to whatever I have posted on Wednesday for half an hour and then I'll do the other stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like every day I have a time scheduled for stories. Or if I know I have some new products and we have to, you know, do the storytelling announce the launch, then I definitely schedule the stories and I schedule like maybe even one hour, because it's not, you know. You see that my stories and it seems so easy and easygoing and natural, but it really takes me time and really takes me effort sometimes to do them, you know, because I'm a woman and I have my circles, you know, I have my yeah, yeah, so, um, and I also schedule, like today's a Thursday, and I and I, on Thursdays, I do my YouTube videos and I schedule them. Uh, and I stick to the schedule.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do that. I need that too. I need it just just for the basic fact of um doing a little bit more effort on putting on lipstick and having freshly washed hair, all of that. If I had to do it on the go every single time, I try that, but then I don't feel great. Or I feel great because I'm like I'm supernatural and it's fine. People can see me like right out of bed, but I don't always feel like that. So it's kind of finding the balance of and this is the work around boundaries how much of yourself are you willing to give? How much is self? How much is business? Where do you plan it? And with all of that together you can find a balance that works for you and that works for your business. But it's it's conscious thinking, yes, it's conscious thinking.
Speaker 2:It's constant working. Yeah, just this, constantly doing it, like from day to day, sticking to your schedule and not dropping the ball. You know, this is what. Yeah, this is what brings you there where you want to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's yeah, that that has been an interesting, um, an interesting thing for me. We talked about it in the community with our monthly, we have a monthly uh wins and woes uh meetup where we talk about our wins and our woes. And, um, I talked about this month. Um, I've been having a hard time showing up in my newsletters, being there every other week, uh, because I've not been fit, I've been sick and it's been hard. And how much are you going to beat yourself up about it and how much can you just keep that a little bit more loosely in your hand? Because all the marketing gurus online say you have to show up consistently, otherwise you'll lose. Consistently, otherwise you'll lose. I'm a little bit less strict about that, not just because, uh, I'm in a position where I have some things with my health, but also for everybody else it's not healthy.
Speaker 2:I mean, like just this week, I always I also committed doing a newsletter once per week. It usually comes out on Friday, but also this week I did my wisdom tooth.
Speaker 2:I know no, but it's also something complicated yeah so that's why this week I said, okay, um, I, I skipped the newsletter tomorrow. Yeah, this week, because, yes, I have yesterday I had to take care of myself and I can't today, you know, do the plan like I can't jump over my head. So I do the newsletter next week and that's okay. It's the same, like you do with sport, with, you know, with the diet. It's the same process. You just you commit to yourself, you do it, you try to keep it constantly, but it's okay if you, if you, one time you just you skip it. You know you have a reason.
Speaker 2:You're human, so you go next week. It's not like the way of thinking where you oh, my newsletter, I'm doing it for three months and I still have 10 subscribers Okay, whatever, I'm not going to do it. And I still have 10 subscribers okay, whatever, I'm not gonna do it anymore. No, keep going. But think of how can you get your subscribe. You know the new subscribers. What can you do else? Because probably what you're doing is just not maybe the right thing, but don't you know, don't stop it completely, because it's just not working right now, and so when you make your content for social media, I mostly have seen Instagram and I've also seen one YouTube video.
Speaker 1:When people land there, how do you direct what's the next place you want them to go there? How do you direct what's the next place you want them to go? Are you trying to sell them, to go and buy something on the spot? Are you, do you want them to come back to instagram? Do you want them to sign up for the newsletter? Do you have thoughts, ideas about that?
Speaker 2:yes, and it's well. It's not it, it depends on the. It's really well when we talk about social media. First, you know, for me it's I have, like now we are on Instagram, we are on Pinterest, like we are pinning every day, we are on youtube with a weekly video. On youtube, instagram, we do daily, we do all say newsletter, and also we do a blog like on an online shop, um and that, and, and I also want to do linkedin and I want to do youtube in russian, and so I think that you have to be everywhere, like you have to develop your social media step by step so that you are really, if you want more customers, you have to be on a lot of platforms, and then it's like it's a constant movement around the channels that we have. The main goal is to bring them to our online shop. So it's either from Instagram, from Reel, from Stories or from YouTube, it doesn't matter, but the goal is to have traffic in our online shop. Right, do you? Do you?
Speaker 1:know where most of your customers come from. And let's not forget the, the fairs and the festivals and the markets oh yeah, the markets.
Speaker 2:We do as well. Uh, and we, you know, also there is and and when we go to the market, of course, we sell on the spot, for now it's actually the best working platform for us to be, that's market. That's where we sell the most. But then I also inform people that we have Instagram and I bring them to the Instagram and then to the online shop. Like, I try to get them subscribed to any of our channels, from where they go to our online shop so that they stay with us for a longer time. They go to our online shop so that they stay with us for a longer time. So we don't have to get all the new people every time, but we nurture the people that we already have so that they come all over and over to us.
Speaker 1:And why not put the emphasis on a newsletter so that they don't directly have to buy, but they're in your kind of bubble, a little bit more close to you, a little bit more information, compared to Instagram, where they give you a little heart and they love it and they give a little heart and then they move on. Is there anything? Do you have any plans or thoughts around that?
Speaker 1:You mean focus, rather have focus on one platform on getting people to your newsletter, so say you're on a fair or market to to first of all get them on the newsletter rather than focus first on instagram like for me, I started on instagram, like my whole journey started on instagram like six years ago.
Speaker 2:So for me, instagram is a key. That's what I do the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you're comfortable.
Speaker 2:And I know how to how with my stories and with my storytelling. How, then, to you know from the stories to bring people where I want them to go. So for me, instagram is like a starting point and when we're on the market, yes, I try to bring people to Instagram, not to our newsletter, because, from my experience, subscribing to a newsletter takes you much more effort than subscribing to somebody's instagram, because newsletter is a bigger commitment, you know you have emails in your mailbox.
Speaker 2:Not everybody wanted. But to subscribe to instagram is much less commitment and I know how to bring them from instagram to newsletter like. Like you know, I accumulate this.
Speaker 1:That's what I mean.
Speaker 2:And then I do a drop and I bring them to newsletter and I see a race of my subscribers on my newsletter Like because I plan newsletter. I think, okay, what can I like? Which content I do for newsletter which sort of motivates Instagram followers to go and subscribe to my newsletter? So that that's, that's my way of strategy of thinking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I was after. What the? What you're thinking and your strategy behind it is yeah, sounds great, yeah, so, um, have you started to measure things? Like, as I was saying before, do you know where most of your customers come from? Do you know if they are returning customers? How much of that kind of thing do you do?
Speaker 2:well, and yeah, we still do not enough, I think. But and it's also not always easy to track with new guidelines, are you? We don't always see in our shop where the person is coming from and we see a lot of like. If I compare, if I take pinterest and I see the outgoing clicks from pinterest and then I compare them with the incoming clicks on our online shop, the number will not match, don't match Like, really, it's like not even close. So it's really difficult to track. But we, what we do, we I wish I was doing it on a weekly basis, but I don't. I can't do it. It's not like. I track the numbers on on our online shop and also I check this google how do you call it on google?
Speaker 1:I forgot to google. Yeah, but see, but I'm not doing it. But they're making it so complicated and then they're changing everything around like and, and that's why I think a lot of small businesses are scared of tracking numbers. But it could be super simple. It could be you've had a festival then. How much more did your sales go up in the next few weeks, or not? Did you get more newsletters, subscribers, those kinds of things can be simple to track, but tell you a lot yeah, yeah, like on on the scale we we do now we can it's called google analytics google analytics, but on a scale like we are now, it's not, you know that bigger figures, that I.
Speaker 2:I know where the what works, where the people are coming from, and some I, and we have a lot of returning customers because I know them all from Instagram. I see them all over and sometimes our Shopify shows us as well. This one is coming from YouTube on. Yeah, so I do. I do track the numbers on our Shopify and I have an Excel where I record them. That's actually what I want to do weekly. Like you record the revenue, you record how much you spend on your ads.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't forget about those apps.
Speaker 2:You record whatever else you do, like how much you spend on Pinterest, how much you spend on YouTube or on Instagram, and then how much revenue you got. Then, yeah, you track those. This simple table I have in Excel. All the other figures I have either in my head because I know the business, because it's not at that big scale, or I check them in Shopify.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so I also have. This is, by the way, not an advertisement. I should really reach out to them because I'm always Shopify, shopify. I've had Shopify website for years and I've been very happy with it. When I was in my shop, I also started to use the POS point of sale system and whenever I have a moment, I will try to convince my clients that when you're on a market and you have a website that can record, you can sell and get it out of your website at the same moment and record what happens.
Speaker 1:It just blows my mind that not a lot of people use that, that they're in their hotel rooms writing down what they've sold so that then the next week or something, they can process it. Well, all of that can be fully automated. Process it well, all of that can be fully automated. And of course, it costs a little bit money, but it takes away so much of the work and that kind of thinking where you think about working smarter and, as you're saying, you have this whole marketing mix of all these different platforms that you. It's a lot of time, it's a lot of commitment. So how much of automation, even AI, do you use in your business?
Speaker 2:oh, I use AI for texts. I use daily for all my content, everywhere I useplexity, if I can mention them. I love this AI and I also like now we are just finished automating our B2B process, how our B2B customers buy from us, because before it was very manual and now I know an IT person I know why people are struggling with it. He used like five software programs to build this automation from us. But now it's a portal where our B2B customers log in and then they see our product catalog and then they can place an order all automated. And then they log in again and they see a placed order and then they see an invoice. All that before was done manually and also all the orders. We are keep tracking them now in another portal, like we are building our crm system. Basically, you know yeah, yeah yeah b2b crm system.
Speaker 1:Those are big words, people. B2b crm system. B2 are big words, people. B2b CRM system.
Speaker 2:B2B is when we sell to our end customers via our online shop, but we also sell to other shops, like yarn shops. We sell our products our cases.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you. And CRM, what is it? Customer Relationship Management.
Speaker 2:Yes, drm. What is it? Customer Relationship Management? Yes, like for us, it's where we keep track of our B2B customers, like whom we want to acquire, like whom we already contacted and send an offer, whom we already have, and we also keep a track there of the orders like pro customer. You know we don't have that many yet, um, but it's.
Speaker 1:That's the best thing about it, if you're willing to learn new things within your business and you start when you don't have, when the need is not huge then you can slowly grow into it.
Speaker 1:And the other way around it can work as well. I I have canceled my CRM system because it was doing too many things. I didn't need it, so I just put it into a Notion page. And another thing is my newsletter system. I was totally invested in getting the best newsletter system and it was so complicated that I got it, but it wasn't fun anymore. So for that reason and this is a little bit of an advert I have a little discount for you in the show notes. But that's the reason why I went to Flowdesk because it looks great, it's easy to use, they have everything you need and sometimes you don't need anything more complicated. But what happens is that people get intimidated and they freeze and they think nevermind, I'll just do Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I suffer from it as well. I, I quite. You know, whenever something new I want to start, I so much over complicate it in my head that, when, and you know, like, okay, that's enough, anna, you just start right now and just start like whatever, just do with one simple step. Yeah, start doing it. And I'm like my God, why are you overcomplicating it? Exactly exactly, and you asked me at the beginning about my failures, and that's sort of one of them. At the beginning, I was also.
Speaker 2:You know, I get the best, the best social media system so that when I post the content it get posted everywhere, you know, like butterflies. And then it costed me a lot of money per month and at some point I cancelled it because, like, anna, come on, you you're not there yet. Yeah, oh, you can do it. You can post on Instagram and then you post on YouTube. You can, you know, plan it. Maybe you post on YouTube one month and a half those shots. You know, you don't have to do it, daily, at least. But you don't need a super complicated, expensive system for it or software. Now, at least you don't.
Speaker 1:Yeah and this is what I'm doing right now. So we are recording the audio, but also the video, because I'm thinking about I have been thinking about for a while now to also show this on YouTube, but I'm still not sure, because that means if, even if I do my solo things as well, people are just looking at me in this frame and if it's a conversation, that's different, that's that's like more lively. So what you just try it, you know. Yeah, so that's what I'm doing. I'll just try it and see how it goes, and I'll put some lipstick in the drawer of my desk and I'm ready to go. So, yeah, trial and error and just, and basically that goes. And I've said this before.
Speaker 1:One of the the coolest things I I've learned is that, especially when it comes to marketing, marketing in itself is a trial and error what works for your customer and of course, you can do some pre-work and talk to them and ask them questions, but you still have to figure out what works. And is the market changing or are the platforms changing? Then you kind of need to feel into that and change and do that as well, like the kind of weird apps and the weird things that I've tried that I don't even remember the name of, but some things stick, some things don't. But make sure that you have enough energy and enough time to do the things you know are effective, but also where you feel good and relaxed. And if you're not great and good and relaxed, then find that peace where you can feel like that and where you can be authentic and it's totally possible to be yourself and also kind of step a little bit outside of that comfort zone. That's also part of running a business. It's just part of the deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that was a total solo rant. Sometimes I get into it, yeah. So, oh, my gosh, we talked about so much. It also almost always goes a lot to social media, but I think that you have told us a story of it's not just social media and being mindful of the choices you make around your product, your branding, your marketing choices you make around your product, your branding, your marketing, your contact with your customers super important and automating some things so that you have a little bit more time to do all of those things. So last question do you use any specific planning systems, any specific planning systems calendars, journaling?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't like surprises. I have to plan weeks ahead. I use Notion for my daily business, to do's, yeah, for everything. Notion is is all my life. If I lose excellent access to notion, I will cry. Yeah, yeah, I use, yeah, I plan I have a journal handwritten. I also have notion um.
Speaker 1:so, and when you? Is that more personal or also for business? When you journal with pen and paper, it's a mix, it's a mix yeah, it's a mix.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't use Google Calendar, I don't like online calendars, but you know I put in the journal. But you know I put in the journal. I have my meetings yeah, I have them in a journal, but I also have them in my notion what they weekly to do, where I tick a box if it's done. And in my journal I have I have like meetings, business and personal, but also family stuff. You know, and and whatever my inspirational thoughts, whatever ideas I have, I put them almost always I first write them with a with it on a paper and then I bring them to notion where I structure and organize better if I really think we should stick to it, if it's really an idea I want to do right now, but all my plans, like social media content plans, everything is, in Notion, very organized. I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm yeah, I force myself to becoming that person and it's very useful, yeah, so for me, obviously, I use Bullet Journal and Notion as well, as well as digital calendars, because for things that I do with my family and making sure that things don't overlap with work. So it's a matter of choosing what works for what thing. Sometimes pen and paper is the best and there's nothing like it, and sometimes you just want a digital thing that goes beep, beep, you're on, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Thank you, anna. Thank you so much. I think I got great insights in how you work and what are the plans for the near future. Anything new coming, anything you want to share with an audience.
Speaker 2:We have always plans. We do launches of new products, like not every. I was like never months maybe, because it's always also a test and trial, what you know, what it will stick. So we Christmas is coming I mean we have huge plans. We even do a collaboration with a needle producer Ruben. It is needles producer. This will be big and it will be something which people can do as a gift. You know, like they will have our case which is sustainable, beautiful, very practical, not like you see on the market all those you know, asia-made stuff and then with really good needles inside. Oh my God.
Speaker 1:This sounds really exciting. Okay, so people sign up for the newsletter so you will not miss the Instagram posts. Sign up for the newsletter.
Speaker 2:Sign up so go to the website, which is, and you can also find that in the show yeah, go to instagram, and in my link you know be your link there is a link to sign up for newsletter not just hover on instagram.
Speaker 1:Sign up for the newsletter as well, promise, yeah that's.
Speaker 2:That's where we have all the links.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's where you are sure people will not miss, or a little bit more sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a little more sure. Yeah, they shouldn't miss.
Speaker 1:And just be on Instagram for funsies, for funsies, just for cool. Thank you, anna. Thank you so much for your time, your stories, and I hope to see you in Berlin or somewhere else again soon, oh yeah, we will.
Speaker 2:We are planning a lot of markets next year, thank you, thank you for having me here. Thank you, saskia.
Speaker 1:Hi, this is editing Saskia here. It was so amazing to talk to Anna of Wunderzee and it's been a while. Actually, we recorded this interview the 5th of September, which is more than a month ago. I have been away to the UK in the meantime and I've also been struggling a lot, honestly, with my energy levels. I've had COVID and then I had whooping cough. I didn't even know I could get that anymore because I was vaccinated as a kid, but apparently as an adult you still can get it as a kid, but apparently as an adult you still can get it and so I've been basically recovering and having a very low energy and also kind of low mood, honestly. But I'm getting there, I'm getting back.
Speaker 1:My voice is weird. In some of this interview it sounds like I'm super emotional, but I promise you I wasn't. I just had a little bit of a creak in my voice because of you. It sounds like I'm super emotional, but I promise you I wasn't. I just had a little bit of a creak in my voice because of all the coughing that I've been doing for the last four months, believe it or not. So the summer break has been a bit longer than usual and I finally feel like I'm slowly getting back to somewhat of a normal energy level.
Speaker 1:I feel like I've been really susceptible to all kinds of things, like I've had colds on top of it and everything. So the last couple of months actually, I've been taking some more time for me. I've been crafting more, I've been reading more and prioritizing my health and my well-being, because I'm not fun to be around if I'm exhausted. I can tell you that much. But things are looking up. Things are looking up and it's a nice crispy fall autumn day out here in Rotterdam and I'm enjoying the weather and hanging out in the garden with the chickens. I've been knitting my trachtenjacke for my husband and it's endless rows of garter stitch. I've been sewing ski pants for myself with my sewing teacher because I mean, it's kind of complicated but, I'm doing that.
Speaker 1:What else have I been doing? I've been spinning. I also help Lisette from Schappendraak at the Breidaere, so I was there for a day After that. I was utterly exhausted. I can tell you I am not used to stand for a whole day anymore. Ever since I closed the shop, that kind of ability went down quickly, and I'm doing it again this Friday as I'm helping her again at another festival. It again this Friday as I'm helping her again at another festival.
Speaker 1:Oh, and I wanted to mention that Anna was talking about working together with a needle producer and ever since we recorded this interview, she has talked about on Instagram what needle producer this is, and I thought it was a big deal, so let me share this with you. The Wundersee needle cases now also come with Addi needles, so it's a German brand, produced in Germany, really good quality, and you can get a whole needle set with the Wundersee needle case and the Addi needles. So that's amazing. Congratulations, anna. Okay, I will talk to you next time, or no? Yeah, I will. I will be talking to you and hopefully you will be listening. Thank you, bye.